Cheating

[jamie_u]

wow i never new this about master jedi

JEDI and SHAUN have been my two best m8s on this site along with a few of you ladies and koth players

First of all jedi well done for admitting to it m8 but i thought you woulda gave the chips away free ..

Jedi gave me 1mil 2 days ago along with shaun idk about shaun but i payed that 1mil back and am currently on something like 15mil!! hes a great guy who would help any1

Jed has never done anything but make a great laugh on tables.. i mean as sooon as he comes on koth he trys coming in silent but every player says HI JEDI M8!! hes the best of the best

back to him giving away chips... hes given million on this site otherwise noone else would have any chips to play with.. hes 2 good 4 us lol
i think him giving away his chips onl comes back to him a few minutes later in a huge pot e always seems to win lol

Just think about if that was you who bought the 40mil you wouldnt complain ..what harm is it to us anyway its lowering him on the toplist and also it is just Jedis friendly ways.... get over it i wish i had enough to give away lol .. i given a few million to shaun recently idc he loses them lol ill mae them back eventually just like jedi does... hes made like 50m in about 2 days lol

Also id like to sa millions of people play poker for money isnt this just a twist on that??

If u ban JEdi will be annoying alot of loyal players and also making the site a more unfriendly place!!

cya on koth jed =D

[mreges]

its good to see people helping each other out though.

[T_B_H]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

.
Hi all,

As some of you would already know by now, the topic of buying/selling/giving chips have come under the scrutiny recently.

I would like to take this opportunity (while I still can, as I don't know what the future holds), to put down in writing what actually happened and the full version of the story.

Someone from Pit approached me about 4-5 days ago and asked me if I could sell him some chips. I told him he don't need to buy from me and that I would give him chips for free if he's really broke, like I have done to so many others before him. He told me no coz if he just wants a little chips, he could easily have asked from his friends.

What he needs is about 40m coz he doesn't want to take anymore free chips from his friends as he has already taken a lot from them already. He just wanted to buy enough chips so he can repay all his loans and have some left over to play w/o his friends' help. I thought it was a very noble gesture from him and so I told him I'll check to see if it was alright before doing it. I then went to the forums, took a look at the TOS and other related threads, and found nothing. Then I when to search, typed in "sell chips" & "buy chips", and the results came out nothing.

I then asked a few people on the table I was playing on to ask, and everyone told me as far as they know, it was not against the rules.

So I proceeded to sell the Pit player the chips, under the following conditions.

- That he cannot transfer any chips to OP66.
- And to tell me who he owed chips to, and to let me know when he's returning the loans, so I can be there to witness it. (I know there's loopholes to this but that was the best I could think of at that moment.)

Then, I found out when I log in today that there was a discussion in the forums regarding this topic. I went right away to the main chat to see if there was any mods online so I can verify and straighten this matter out.

I saw Kev (BountyHunter) and I asked him if he knows if there was a rule against buying and selling of chips. He told me that as far as he knows, there was no rule against it but he did say that, in his opinion, it was morally not the right thing to do. Then, other mods log in and gave their opinions on the matter. There was some implications that what I did was against the rules and actions might be taken against me.

Ok, that's basically what happened. Now, like all my other posts, I'm not here to talk about whose opinion is right or wrong... coz as far as I'm concerned, I welcome differences in opinion, as I think that's how we all grow as a person, and as a community.

The point I want to make is this:

I have been told for the first time, AFTER I have sold some chips, that selling chips may be against the site rules.

Since the day I joined this site, giving chips to a friend or another player has always been allowed. They even have this facility where you can PM a Mod and ask him/her to transfer x amount of chips to this-or-that player. I have used it in the past to give chips to people.

So if selling chips is against the site rules, why does the site allow the act of giving chips and even allowed Mods the ability to transfer chips?

Doesn't this allows anyone wanting to buy/sell chips to just PM/MSN each other, agree on a price, make the payment via an outside method like Western Union, PayPal etc, and then go to a table/PM a mod, and says that he's giving his friend the chips for free?

Can anyone honestly say this has never happened before, given the ease it can be done?

The only difference here is that when I found out that there may be a possible infringement of the rules, I went straight to a Mod and try to straighten the matter out in an amicable manner.

If I had known the possible consequences of being honest and upfront with what I did, I might as well have kept silent, deny everything and just said I gave my chips to help a friend. Then, all will be cool and I'm looked upon as the good guy who gave chips to help a friend out again.... right?

Like I said earlier somewhere else, I could easily have done that and no one would be wiser for it. But I know I can't get pass myself and live with myself with that lie.

I would like to say now that I do agree that, morally, maybe it is not the right thing to do... and it probably is not. And if my actions has harmed or hurt anyone, then I say now: "I am sorry". It was never my intention.

All I wanted was to help someone repay his loans first and foremost. The fact that I was paid, to me, is secondary. If my intentions was to make money selling chips, I wouldn't have given more than 100m away for free in the 5 months that I have been here, and even posted on the forums offering to help everyone out who had problems transferring chips from the old site to the new during the crossover.

IF, (Till now, I still don't know for sure if selling/buying of chips is stated in some thread saying it's strictly against site rules. And I mean rules, not the moral issue which I already admit may not be right) it is indeed against some rules that was written down clearly and I broke them without my knowledge.. then again, I say: "I am sorry".

In my humble opinion, if the site do decide to outlaw the selling/buying of chips, I think, like Danzi and others have already suggested, it's only fair to altogether ban giving chips to anyone and Mods are not allowed to transfer chips either. Only then could we be pretty certain that someone is not selling chips under the guise of 'giving' chips to a friend.

And in the same context, since forums credits can be exchanged for chips and there's even a 'donation' button, can they not be sold too? Anyone can MSN another, agree on a price, make the payment and then click the 'donate' button. Kept quiet about it and no one would be wiser for it. So if the site decides to outlaw the buying/selling of chips, we should also abolish the credits and donations system too, so that, like the outlawing of giving chips and Mods being able to transfer chips, we are not to be seen as encouraging the buying/selling of chips.

Even then, since we are a merged site, an OP member can still open a Pitbull account, transfer his OP chips to his Pitbull acct, and sell them to anyone wanting to buy under the Pitbull account.

Lastly, I would like to say that whatever the outcome, I will never sell chips to anyone again... regardless of the reasons. After this episode, I would probably not even give chips to anyone again, lest I be accused of selling them. It's easy you know ---> A person ask for chips, saying he needs help. The kind soul donates some chips to him. Then the person turns round and complain to a Mod that the kind soul sold it to him !

To end, I would like to offer my sincere apology if my action has hurt or harm anyone. It was never my intention and I'm sorry.

Peace,
JediKnight
.

well seeing as my name has been mentioned here, i think i have the right to post my answer from the chat log which was a public message(s)

[Message] TheBountyHunter -> Chat Lobby: well i dont think there anything written in T.O.S .........but it is cheating and that is
Message] TheBountyHunter -> Chat Lobby: so in my opinion it is cheating and not allowed
[Message] TheBountyHunter -> Chat Lobby: well there is discussion on this, and i agree that it is cheating and should not be acceptable.

well now everyone know's my opinion on this

[TheCEO]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

.
Hi all,

As some of you would already know by now, the topic of buying/selling/giving chips have come under the scrutiny recently.

I would like to take this opportunity (while I still can, as I don't know what the future holds), to put down in writing what actually happened and the full version of the story.

Someone from Pit approached me about 4-5 days ago and asked me if I could sell him some chips. I told him he don't need to buy from me and that I would give him chips for free if he's really broke, like I have done to so many others before him. He told me no coz if he just wants a little chips, he could easily have asked from his friends.

What he needs is about 40m coz he doesn't want to take anymore free chips from his friends as he has already taken a lot from them already. He just wanted to buy enough chips so he can repay all his loans and have some left over to play w/o his friends' help. I thought it was a very noble gesture from him and so I told him I'll check to see if it was alright before doing it. I then went to the forums, took a look at the TOS and other related threads, and found nothing. Then I when to search, typed in "sell chips" & "buy chips", and the results came out nothing.

I then asked a few people on the table I was playing on to ask, and everyone told me as far as they know, it was not against the rules.

So I proceeded to sell the Pit player the chips, under the following conditions.

- That he cannot transfer any chips to OP66.
- And to tell me who he owed chips to, and to let me know when he's returning the loans, so I can be there to witness it. (I know there's loopholes to this but that was the best I could think of at that moment.)

Then, I found out when I log in today that there was a discussion in the forums regarding this topic. I went right away to the main chat to see if there was any mods online so I can verify and straighten this matter out.

I saw Kev (BountyHunter) and I asked him if he knows if there was a rule against buying and selling of chips. He told me that as far as he knows, there was no rule against it but he did say that, in his opinion, it was morally not the right thing to do. Then, other mods log in and gave their opinions on the matter. There was some implications that what I did was against the rules and actions might be taken against me.

Ok, that's basically what happened. Now, like all my other posts, I'm not here to talk about whose opinion is right or wrong... coz as far as I'm concerned, I welcome differences in opinion, as I think that's how we all grow as a person, and as a community.

The point I want to make is this:

I have been told for the first time, AFTER I have sold some chips, that selling chips may be against the site rules.

Since the day I joined this site, giving chips to a friend or another player has always been allowed. They even have this facility where you can PM a Mod and ask him/her to transfer x amount of chips to this-or-that player. I have used it in the past to give chips to people.

So if selling chips is against the site rules, why does the site allow the act of giving chips and even allowed Mods the ability to transfer chips?

Doesn't this allows anyone wanting to buy/sell chips to just PM/MSN each other, agree on a price, make the payment via an outside method like Western Union, PayPal etc, and then go to a table/PM a mod, and says that he's giving his friend the chips for free?

Can anyone honestly say this has never happened before, given the ease it can be done?

The only difference here is that when I found out that there may be a possible infringement of the rules, I went straight to a Mod and try to straighten the matter out in an amicable manner.

If I had known the possible consequences of being honest and upfront with what I did, I might as well have kept silent, deny everything and just said I gave my chips to help a friend. Then, all will be cool and I'm looked upon as the good guy who gave chips to help a friend out again.... right?

Like I said earlier somewhere else, I could easily have done that and no one would be wiser for it. But I know I can't get pass myself and live with myself with that lie.

I would like to say now that I do agree that, morally, maybe it is not the right thing to do... and it probably is not. And if my actions has harmed or hurt anyone, then I say now: "I am sorry". It was never my intention.

All I wanted was to help someone repay his loans first and foremost. The fact that I was paid, to me, is secondary. If my intentions was to make money selling chips, I wouldn't have given more than 100m away for free in the 5 months that I have been here, and even posted on the forums offering to help everyone out who had problems transferring chips from the old site to the new during the crossover.

IF, (Till now, I still don't know for sure if selling/buying of chips is stated in some thread saying it's strictly against site rules. And I mean rules, not the moral issue which I already admit may not be right) it is indeed against some rules that was written down clearly and I broke them without my knowledge.. then again, I say: "I am sorry".

In my humble opinion, if the site do decide to outlaw the selling/buying of chips, I think, like Danzi and others have already suggested, it's only fair to altogether ban giving chips to anyone and Mods are not allowed to transfer chips either. Only then could we be pretty certain that someone is not selling chips under the guise of 'giving' chips to a friend.

And in the same context, since forums credits can be exchanged for chips and there's even a 'donation' button, can they not be sold too? Anyone can MSN another, agree on a price, make the payment and then click the 'donate' button. Kept quiet about it and no one would be wiser for it. So if the site decides to outlaw the buying/selling of chips, we should also abolish the credits and donations system too, so that, like the outlawing of giving chips and Mods being able to transfer chips, we are not to be seen as encouraging the buying/selling of chips.

Even then, since we are a merged site, an OP member can still open a Pitbull account, transfer his OP chips to his Pitbull acct, and sell them to anyone wanting to buy under the Pitbull account.

Lastly, I would like to say that whatever the outcome, I will never sell chips to anyone again... regardless of the reasons. After this episode, I would probably not even give chips to anyone again, lest I be accused of selling them. It's easy you know ---> A person ask for chips, saying he needs help. The kind soul donates some chips to him. Then the person turns round and complain to a Mod that the kind soul sold it to him !

To end, I would like to offer my sincere apology if my action has hurt or harm anyone. It was never my intention and I'm sorry.

Peace,
JediKnight
.

Not once in your letter, apology or whatever you want to call it do I see that you checked with any administrator or moderator concerning the selling and/or buying of chips on this site. IT IS clearly against this site policy to sell and or buy chips.

[MRCOOL1]

Originally Posted by TheBassmaster

Not once in your letter, apology or whatever you want to call it do I see that you checked with any administrator or moderator concerning the selling and/or buying of chips on this site. IT IS clearly against this site policy to sell and or buy chips.

Then, I found out when I log in today that there was a discussion in the forums regarding this topic. I went right away to the main chat to see if there was any mods online so I can verify and straighten this matter out.

I saw Kev (BountyHunter) and I asked him if he knows if there was a rule against buying and selling of chips. He told me that as far as he knows, there was no rule against it but he did say that, in his opinion, it was morally not the right thing to do. Then, other mods log in and gave their opinions on the matter. There was some implications that what I did was against the rules and actions might be taken against me

[TheCEO]

Originally Posted by MRCOOL

Then, I found out when I log in today that there was a discussion in the forums regarding this topic. I went right away to the main chat to see if there was any mods online so I can verify and straighten this matter out.

I saw Kev (BountyHunter) and I asked him if he knows if there was a rule against buying and selling of chips. He told me that as far as he knows, there was no rule against it but he did say that, in his opinion, it was morally not the right thing to do. Then, other mods log in and gave their opinions on the matter. There was some implications that what I did was against the rules and actions might be taken against me

I stand corrected.

[MRBUNDYBEAR]

So Jedi how much did you sell them for?????

[killa1]

help to u ???????????? help 4 every1

[thumper]

well everybody this what i think we should do. first make sure the rules for selling, lending, and giving chips away are posted for everyone to know and since i feel all existing to chips are tainted we should all be reset to 0. then we can once again see who the real poker players are.

[thumper]

also, last thing said from me. jedi is always a pleasure to play with, and i would hate to see anything done to him and others for the past actions. but now that it seems everything has been laid out on the table future action should be dealt with accordingly.

[TheCEO]

Originally Posted by thumper

also, last thing said from me. jedi is always a pleasure to play with, and i would hate to see anything done to him and others for the past actions. but now that it seems everything has been laid out on the table future action should be dealt with accordingly.

And it will.....

[CherryPie]

thats all well and good santa and normally i do get along with u and i did stick up for u to some point that night but u went way too far and sparked off out of nowhere u were a total jerk and as for the msn thing i did see u say that u were cheating and to TI to tell u his hand on msn.

and i get how u feel about linda but i think u have got things wrong, u see it as your site u have been there since the beggining.... but many people from here feel the same - this is our site now and so we have our expectations, and donations in the way that occurs so often on pitbull in most opinions from players here ruins the game, and is against our rules, and what she and whoever else has done to get all those chips over here is utterly stupid.

[davec2056]

Originally Posted by TheBassmaster

Not once in your letter, apology or whatever you want to call it do I see that you checked with any administrator or moderator concerning the selling and/or buying of chips on this site. IT IS clearly against this site policy to sell and or buy chips.

If it is clearly against this site policy to sell or buy chips, then perhaps you could show us where it clearly states this.

[TheCEO]

From our TOS:

This includes, but is not limited to posting trademarked or copyrighted information without express authorization from the rights holder; advertising products or services; Multi-Level Marketing; inducements to invest or transact cash business outside the specific business of the site.

[davec2056]

Thanks for that Bassmaster and would agree you could place selling chips into this catergory, but would you not agree that the rules could be made much clearer to avoid any missunderstanding.

[JackSpades]

I think every one has had anough to say about this matter please close thread.