jimggoldwing

[daddyspoon]

Everleaf Gaming Game #280633445
***** Hand history for game #280633445 *****
Blinds 25/50 NL Hold'em - 2011/06/18 - 16:22:07
Table 2
Seat 10
Total number of players: 9
Seat 1: sternswiss ( 1350 Chips )
Seat 2: teebs ( 1435 Chips )
Seat 3: chuckster66 ( 1315 Chips )
Seat 4: telboy ( 1980 Chips )
Seat 5: weedinho ( 1174 Chips )
Seat 6: jimggoldwing ( 1996 Chips )
Seat 8: tictalk ( 1845 Chips )
Seat 9: daddyspoon ( 1495 Chips )
Seat 10: RockDivaD ( 2410 Chips )
sternswiss: posts 25 Chips]
teebs: posts 50 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to daddyspoon ]
jimggoldwing: nh
weedinho: nh tee
chuckster66 folds
teebs: ty
telboy folds
weedinho folds
jimggoldwing 200 Chips]
tictalk folds
daddyspoon folds
RockDivaD folds
sternswiss folds
teebs folds
jimggoldwing does not show cards
jimggoldwing wins 125 chips from main pot

i have to know was this a good lay down?

[unclepony11]

u laid down to a 4x BB bet? i wouldnt be laying jacks down in that position

[daddyspoon]

my first thought was shove all in. but my iv been getting mullered by and with pockets all week. flat calling or reraise wasnt on my mind because its sods law a over card would come out and i reckon jim would have continuation bet.

[DukeOfDeath]

Yeah... Good laydown? Possibly. Disciplined laydown? Most definitely. I think with your position you might have been good to make the call. If you were out of position, I'd say no way. With blinds any smaller, I'd say definitely, but it is 13% of your stack here. If you honestly have the read that he's only raising with As or Ks (which I highly doubt is the case) then fold, and if you feel he'll continuation bet more than half pot a majority of the time on the flop then you probably also don't have equity. But even if you throw in AK as a possibility (not to mention AQs Ts or 9s) then you have odds to call. There's a 59% chance you'll have an overpair or set on the flop in addition to a call possibly slowing him down. You should never fold because you could be beat when you know there's just as much a chance you're ahead. Otherwise, you'd have to fold every hand but As.

I also think there's a case for a 3-bet. It ensures that no one else limps in behind and that jim only plays you with AA or KK. It keeps you from guessing on the flop whether you have the best overpair folding out Qs even. If he does play back you can give up still with 15 to 20 BBs left, but if you get to see a flop you still will be flopping a set almost 12% of the time, and you'll likely get a free card with the 3-bet pre-flop and your position giving you an additional 4% to catch a set on the turn.

Then there's the fold, which I get your reasoning for. You know at best you're up against two over cards (a toss up) or a lower pair (which can do the same thing to you that you can do to a higher pair). So if you don't feel like stacking off, a fold makes since. But if that's the case, might as well check post fold (like your other thread ) because less than 1 in 50 hands are better or even with Js preflop. Did you ever find a better hand before this game was over? How'd you end up?

[daddyspoon]

yeah i got KK a few hands later, only got me blinds tho. and i finished 4th (there was still 2 tables going at the time of my fold)

[DukeOfDeath]

Originally Posted by daddyspoon

yeah i got KK a few hands later, only got me blinds tho. and i finished 4th (there was still 2 tables going at the time of my fold)

Well because you folded, Jim only got blinds on his KK too. So all even ... Did you finish above Jim still?

[daddyspoon]

i finished in a higher position but we both came away 500k down

[CaptainSandy]

It just seems like a standard raise, in all likelyhood you were ahead.
I'd have pushed all in.
If it was a reraise, then yes, fold JJ, but it wasn't.

[jimggoldwing]

I just saw this thread... good reasoning... good discussion... and of course, as we all know, more goes into a hand (table play) than the resident hand itself... but in the spirit of fun, I'll go ahead and show the hand history at this stage... and yes, I finished 11th in the tourney to his 4th... well done, Dads, but as he already noted, we both ended up 500k down in chips!

Everleaf Gaming Game #280633445
***** Hand history for game #280633445 *****
Blinds 25/50 NL Hold'em - 2011/06/18 - 16:21:39
Table 2
Seat 10
Total number of players: 9
Seat 1: sternswiss ( 1350 Chips )
Seat 2: teebs ( 1435 Chips )
Seat 3: chuckster66 ( 1315 Chips )
Seat 4: telboy ( 1980 Chips )
Seat 5: weedinho ( 1174 Chips )
Seat 6: jimggoldwing ( 1996 Chips )
Seat 8: tictalk ( 1845 Chips )
Seat 9: daddyspoon ( 1495 Chips )
Seat 10: RockDivaD ( 2410 Chips )
sternswiss: posts 25 Chips]
teebs: posts 50 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jimggoldwing ]
jimggoldwing: nh
weedinho: nh tee
chuckster66 folds
teebs: ty
telboy folds
weedinho folds
jimggoldwing 200 Chips]
tictalk folds
daddyspoon folds
RockDivaD folds
sternswiss folds
teebs folds
jimggoldwing does not show cards
jimggoldwing wins 125 chips from main pot

[tattmando]

wp jim. and probably a good laydown.

[jimggoldwing]

Thanks, Tatt... and there has been good discussion and analysis...

Ok, very different circumstances... the referenced hand was "fairly early" in the 500,000 chip entry fee Weekly Mammoth... clearly, a signature event on the OP66 free chip side. Quality of play several steps above what we see in the daily tournaments.

Circumstances below a bit different... the Ultra Outlaws... bingo rules (J9, for example, a couple of hands before this wiped out 2 other stacks). This time, I was against the AK with a slightly smaller pair than what Daddyspoon had... and we'll never know because the Mammoth hand didn't play out, but this is what he COULD'VE been up against ("could've" is very subjective in this instance --- just using this hand for illustrative purposes, mostly because it is so fresh, as I just lost on this hand a few minutes ago). And note --- the King hits on the flop...


Everleaf Gaming Game #280787612
***** Hand history for game #280787612 *****
Blinds 30/60 NL Hold'em - 2011/06/19 - 04:07:56
Table 2
Seat 9
Total number of players: 8
Seat 1: 300l6t ( 1935 Chips )
Seat 2: jimggoldwing ( 840 Chips )
Seat 3: nolakay ( 2735 Chips )
Seat 4: thinkgreen ( 885 Chips )
Seat 5: looper ( 790 Chips )
Seat 7: tattmando ( 790 Chips )
Seat 8: Arezzo ( 1445 Chips )
Seat 9: waterman1 ( 1950 Chips )
300l6t: posts 30 Chips]
jimggoldwing: posts 60 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jimggoldwing ]
nolakay: nh
waterman1: n
nolakay folds
300l6t: ty
thinkgreen folds
looper folds
tattmando 60 Chips]
Arezzo 270 Chips]
waterman1 folds
300l6t folds
tattmando: %#@#@ river
jimggoldwing 780 Chips]
tattmando folds
Arezzo 570 Chips]
** Dealing Flop ** ]
** Dealing Turn ** ]
** Dealing River ** ]
jimggoldwing shows ] two pairs, nines and sevens
Arezzo shows ] two pairs, kings and sevens
Arezzo wins 1770 chips from main pot with two pairs, kings and sevens ]

[stevo_58]

Great thread. I think you played it well DS. I'd like to think I would have played it the same way, but I know I would probably have gone all in.

[daddyspoon]

i was so hoping you would say AA or KK but that is 1 of the 2 i put you on and im fairly happy with my fold. altho im starting to think i play too tight.

oh and sorry about the title it was just to get you to read it