Mediocre Beat

[DukeOfDeath]

Here's a hand analysis. How should I have played it any differently? I feel like I saved myself a lot of chips. I easily could have spewed a lot with As in this spot, but if I'd played any slower I wouldn't maximize the majority of the time I'm ahead.

Everleaf Gaming Game #288591944
***** Hand history for game #288591944 *****
Blinds 10/20 NL Hold'em - 2011/07/17 - 21:07:02
Table 1
Seat 5
Total number of players: 6
Seat 1: bowhunter474 ( 1500 Chips )
Seat 2: Paulygirl ( 1850 Chips )
Seat 3: DukeOfDeath ( 1480 Chips )
Seat 4: RoDoZo ( 1510 Chips )
Seat 5: Eggamuffin ( 1470 Chips )
Seat 6: TireGroover ( 1190 Chips )
TireGroover: posts 10 Chips]
bowhunter474: posts 20 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DukeOfDeath ]
RoDoZo: double ups are ok for me this week
Paulygirl 20 Chips]
DukeOfDeath 70 Chips]
RoDoZo folds
Eggamuffin folds
TireGroover 60 Chips]
bowhunter474 folds
DukeOfDeath: yeah I'm winning the $1 and losing the $2
Paulygirl 50 Chips]
** Dealing Flop ** ]
TireGroover checks
Paulygirl checks
DukeOfDeath checks
** Dealing Turn ** ]
RoDoZo: hmmm. not handy
TireGroover checks
Paulygirl checks
RoDoZo: better other way around m8
DukeOfDeath: 100 Chips]
TireGroover 100 Chips]
DukeOfDeath: this is the game I turn it around
Paulygirl folds
** Dealing River ** ]
RoDoZo: ok
TireGroover: 160 Chips]
DukeOfDeath: this guy has a 3
DukeOfDeath 160 Chips]
TireGroover shows ] a straight, jack high
DukeOfDeath shows ] two pairs, aces and threes
TireGroover wins 750 chips from main pot with a straight, jack high ]

I think my position obviously helped, but checking the flop kept the pot small and allowed others to possibly bluff (or think I'm bluffing later). Luckily he slow played some, and of course I paid him off. But it could have been worse.

What do you think, could I have saved a bet? Should I have bet the flop?

[stevo_58]

Looks like you did OK to me mate. I would have gone 100 pre flop then big after. So I would have lost a lot lol

[chuckster66]

I woulda lost more stevo cause I woulda put the whole damn farm up!!!

[OP66fozzy]

Well he had an almost perfect hand for cracking Aces. Hard to see you getting away from the hand before the river.

Interesting to see your chat comment, if you thought he had a 3, why call. I see a lot of players who know they are beat, but make the call on the river just because they 'need to see', which I believe is code for 'I'm desperately hoping you were bluffing'.

I know you called for value.

Both of you played it tight, either of you 'could' have bet the flop, money 'could' have gone in before the river, the only reason I would see you playing it differently in future, is to keep your opponents guessing.

[CaptainSandy]

Looks like you played it pretty well, but also your opponent played it well too, although if he'd bet big postflop he'd have possibly taken most of your chips.

[jazzsinger1]

would have bet higher on flop but then again it depends on the players you playing as what they read or what hands would they play on that raise....but i think you played it right thereafter..the second 3 saved you from paying more into the pot,so rightfully you put him on the
3 on the final bet..

[DukeOfDeath]

Good points everybody.

Originally Posted by OP66fozzy

Well he had an almost perfect hand for cracking Aces. Hard to see you getting away from the hand before the river.

Interesting to see your chat comment, if you thought he had a 3, why call. I see a lot of players who know they are beat, but make the call on the river just because they 'need to see', which I believe is code for 'I'm desperately hoping you were bluffing'.

I know you called for value.

Both of you played it tight, either of you 'could' have bet the flop, money 'could' have gone in before the river, the only reason I would see you playing it differently in future, is to keep your opponents guessing.

Yeah I guess the river call was for value. I don't think he's smart enough to float me, but I also think he might have slow played a KJ and wouldn't reasonably put ME on a 3 with my preflop raise. There are enough things in his range that I felt a call was justified (not to mention pride, curiousity and stubborness). And turns out he indeed had a medium suited connector, the best Ace buster.

As to my read on the guy (as many of you asked), you can see by his stack that he either got unlucky or had been bleeding chips. It was the latter, he was already down 1/3 of his stack just a few hands in by playing too loose. Even though he'd really only been loose on the passive side, I didn't want to put a bluff past him (and wanted to see his cards for future info too.) He ended up being the second one out and didn't cash, whereas I did (and Rodozo squeeked into the money too).

Thanks for all the advice and comments.

[OP66fozzy]

I see the call for value, and the added value you get from the information even if you have a losing hand.

With the pot the size it was, where would you have drawn the line at calling a river bet ? I understand if you don't want to share that info

[DukeOfDeath]

Originally Posted by OP66fozzy

I see the call for value, and the added value you get from the information even if you have a losing hand.

With the pot the size it was, where would you have drawn the line at calling a river bet ? I understand if you don't want to share that info

Yeah with 160 to call into a pot of 590, 3.7:1 is a justifiable call. I don't mind telling you how loose or tight I call considering it'll be different with different situation anyway. But I just did a number crunch and I'm still ahead of his range. So technically I would call any bet. But in all honesty maybe 2.5:1 or somewhere in that area. Maybe 300 would be my cutoff.

Good question.

[OP66fozzy]

Thanks for answering, was purely a question asked out of curiosity, hopefully with an answer I can use to improve my game generally rather than to give me a specific advantage against you if we ever meet on a table.

One last question about that hand, why did you 'show' rather than muck ? Was it to give a particular image to take advantage of later ?

I am generally wary of showing cards at cash tables ( be them winners or losers, bluff or not ), as I don't want to give away any unnecessary information about my play. Though I may make an exception if I have hit a Royal. This rule does not apply for me on play chip tables.

[DukeOfDeath]

Originally Posted by OP66fozzy

Thanks for answering, was purely a question asked out of curiosity, hopefully with an answer I can use to improve my game generally rather than to give me a specific advantage against you if we ever meet on a table.

One last question about that hand, why did you 'show' rather than muck ? Was it to give a particular image to take advantage of later ?

I am generally wary of showing cards at cash tables ( be them winners or losers, bluff or not ), as I don't want to give away any unnecessary information about my play. Though I may make an exception if I have hit a Royal. This rule does not apply for me on play chip tables.

Very good point. I generally only show at play chip tables where I'm afraid my friends think I'm bluffing to much to show that I had a good hand. Or sometimes if everyone gives me too much credit I'll show a bluff or two.

In this instance maybe it was half to show RoDoZo I had AA since I was just talking about having luck in the SNG's. But although I don't like showing much, I feel like though it gave away information, it also did portray an image I wanted for later.

Since a seemingly looser player was now back on top and I was now somewhat short stacked, I'd prefer at this point to be given credit and stay afloat. If I was pegged as loose aggressive I'm gonna have no bluff chance and am forced to pick up a hand. If I'm pegged as tight or tight aggressive I can bet my hands and hopefully get away with a few more bluffs to get back in the game.

Not saying I completely thought through all this when deciding to show, but I do this type of thing occasionally.