Site Rules Question

[stevo_58]

For anyone who hasn't read it this is an extract from the rules thread on the forum, I have highlighted the parts that are relevant to my question:


All Rules are here : Tables chat, general chat, forum & profiles pages!
________________________________________
By using the forum, chat and/or homepage offerings, you agree to the following:
Free Chips are not to be passed/sold for cash to any other player on tables or by any other means on or off this site, If you are found to be in breach of this your account will be Banned and all chips removed. All play chips although free to use will remain the property of onlinepoker66.

WARNING
About your profiles page (including your comments)
Those who send content that is not permitted on this site WILL be removed (banned) from this site.

Those of you who are reading this and have content on your page, in the post, public message or albums, you need to REMOVE THIS CONTENT. If a moderator discovers it the objectionable content will be removed and you risk your account being suspended indefinitely.
About SPAM : What is spam?

Spam posts may contain anything from a single link, to dozens of links. Text content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum's topic.
Please remember, if you do spam the forum you can & will be removed.


Harrassement/Abuse

The Admins and Moderators would like to remind all Members of this site that Harrassement/abuse of another player/s WILL NOT BE TOLERATED under any circumstance.

Members are requested to REPORT any Harrassement/abuse issue to a Moderator either by PM or IM in chat ASAP, DO NOT post in the public forum or the thread will be closed.


This is an extract of part of the Terms & Conditions which are on the web page, again the part relevant to my question is highlighted:

Onlinepoker66 TERMS & CONDITIONS

Offensive behavior & Reporting

45. The Onlinepoker66 Experience is aimed to be fun and pleasant, therefore any abusive and obscene language is not tolerated and Players who insist on using offensive language will have their Chat blocked

So my question is this. Clearly if you spam, post rude pictures or messages or engage in chip dumping you will be banned. It clearly says so in the rules. But if you directly abuse other players using offensive language all you will get is to have your chat blocked!

So is dumping "free" chips (which obviously I don't agree with) regarded as more serious than someone abusing another player!

My reason for posting this is not to infer that the mods do not do a great job, it is to point out what seems to be (only my opinion) an inconsistency within the rules and guidelines.

I broke to rules by naming someone on the forum for abuse and quite rightly, as per the rules, my post was removed. I don't have any problem with that. What I do have a bit of an issue with is how can a player who openly and directly abused another player via the chat window during the titans tourney recently, still be allowed to use the site. There would have been at least 8 other players who witnessed this abuse. Obviously under the rules as they currently are what that player did does not warrant a ban, merely a chat ban.

I wasn't the one abused and yea you could say it none of my business, but you would be wrong. As a user of this site it is my business. I'm far from Mr Squeaky Clean I admit, but am I the only one who thinks direct abuse of another site user by way of offensive foul language should result in a permanent ban from the site?

[sa11y69]

i'm with you on this stevo. after the abuse i received during the titans tourney, i wasnt very happy to see myself seated yesterday next to the very same person and subjected to the same clop as he gave me last week. i think more severe sanctions shud be enforced...feels like being back on pit....

edit:
i just noticed the comment on it not being your business...it IS your business...you witnessed another player being abused and in my opinion, quite rightly stepped in to help, as did Tel and a few others. There was a mod seated, but unfortunately he was busy trying to sort out EXACTLY the same problem on another table. No doubt you will be told that you shud've just blocked their chat...I say carry on the way you are...if it wasnt for people like you, this place would be a lot worse...

[jockney]

Personally I think the penalties are appropriate.

If you cheat at poker ( IE Chip dumping) then it is appropriate to be denied the opportunity to play poker. If you use bad ,inappropriate or abusive language, then it is right that you should be denied the opportunity to chat at tables.

I can not comment on the individual case that you refer to and obviously there are levels of tolerance when bad or abusive language is used, but if you have an issue with any actions that have been taken could you PM myself or another member of the moderation team.

Thanks

[telboy]

well said stevo,and i agree with you.
i was there sal and the player was out of order,dealt with by a mod who also was at the table,if the abuse is still there as you say and is in chat records a ban for life is in order,what some dont realise is this behavior spreads and yes we will end up like pit grrrrrrrrrr

[MRCOOL1]

Originally Posted by sa11y69

i'm with you on this stevo. after the abuse i received during the titans tourney, i wasnt very happy to see myself seated yesterday next to the very same person and subjected to the same clop as he gave me last week. i think more severe sanctions shud be enforced...feels like being back on pit....

Originally Posted by jockney

Personally I think the penalties are appropriate.

If you cheat at poker ( IE Chip dumping) then it is appropriate to be denied the opportunity to play poker. If you use bad ,inappropriate or abusive language, then it is right that you should be denied the opportunity to chat at tables.

I can not comment on the individual case that you refer to and obviously there are levels of tolerance when bad or abusive language is used, but if you have an issue with any actions that have been taken could you PM myself or another member of the moderation team.

Thanks

Well put, Jockney, ... simply and fairly explained, i think. When it's put in those terms it makes perfect sense, i think.

question , tho, regarding both Sally's and Stevo's individual example: I know that alot of people witnessed it, but did anyone actually report it? seems to me that with the level of garbage that was being spewed it should be a slam dunk for chat ban...but you say he's still 'live'..??


edit: i see now that a mod was witnessing the 'action'.... so then the question is.... why hasnt a ban been enforced?? again lol

[jockney]

Originally Posted by MRCOOL1

question , tho, regarding both Sally's and Stevo's individual example: I know that alot of people witnessed it, but did anyone actually report it? seems to me that with the level of garbage that was being spewed it should be a slam dunk for chat ban...but you say he's still 'live'..??


edit: i see now that a mod was witnessing the 'action'.... so then the question is.... why hasnt a ban been enforced?? again lol

Not sure the answer to that but PM me the specifics and I'll investigate

[sa11y69]

i can take anything anyone wants to throw at me so i dont say it because i'm upset...i make my point because i know there are players on here who are not as loud as me, there are a lot of timid players here. they SHUD NOT have to put up with this abuse. The standard chat ban is 24 hours...it used to be a month...bring it back.......

[CaptainSandy]

I agree with ...... Jockney.

If you were playing in a 'real' tournament which is worse cheating or being abusive? Surely everyone would agree the former.

Plus, if the offenders chat is blocked then the problem is solved.

[sa11y69]

ok...
i watched a mod ban a player from chat for being a pain in the bum...he was booing...he was making stupid comments...he DID NOT swear...he did not say anything implicit...he had his chat banned.
The comments made to me were disgusting. they were sick. do you think OP66 is the type of place for people like this? coz if it is then i dont wanna play here. if i want to be spoken to like that i'm sure i can find an adult chatroom somewhere, but i dont, i want to play poker, and while i play poker, i dont want to be asked to do personal favours to people who obviously have a problem with their manhood....wtf would possess someone to say these things?? in my opinion, they cant be right in the head and shudnt be allowed on this 'family site'...

[stevo_58]

Originally Posted by jockney

Personally I think the penalties are appropriate.

If you cheat at poker ( IE Chip dumping) then it is appropriate to be denied the opportunity to play poker. If you use bad ,inappropriate or abusive language, then it is right that you should be denied the opportunity to chat at tables.

I can not comment on the individual case that you refer to and obviously there are levels of tolerance when bad or abusive language is used, but if you have an issue with any actions that have been taken could you PM myself or another member of the moderation team.

Thanks

Thanks Jock. I am not on a witch hunt, I just used that incident as an example. I could track it from my hand history but as a mod was present (and took immediate action) they will be fully aware of the incident.

It's not so much that I have an issue with any actions taken because in this particular case the rules as they currently are, seem to have been enforced, because I have not seen that particular player 'chat' on a table since.

But that is my exact point. After being so personally abusive to another player why are these people even allowed the opportunity to stay and enjoy being able to play, especially with people they are more than happy to be abusive towards. This is not the only player I have seen who has done this and then continued to be allowed to play on this site.

I have to disagree that the penalties are appropriate. Yes ban someone for chip dumping and for the other reason quoted in the rules. But back to my question again, why does offensive abuse of another player not justify a life ban?

Yes there are levels of tolerance Jock I agree, but some comments are way past the line of tolerance of just about anyone I would have thought. I think you can understand the type of comments I mean.

As Telboy said, this type of behavior can and does spread if it is not dealt with effectively and in these types of instances surely the only appropriate action is a life ban?

Yes we have to be tolerant at times, but some things don't warrant being 'tolerated' It's only my opinion and as I said I am not being critical of the mods. Just highlighting what I believe is an inconsistency in the rules.

[stevo_58]

Originally Posted by CaptainSandy

I agree with ...... Jockney.

If you were playing in a 'real' tournament which is worse cheating or being abusive? Surely everyone would agree the former.

Plus, if the offenders chat is blocked then the problem is solved.

Well in a real tournament you could knock the stuffing out of the idiot if you felt that way inclined. Yea you would get thrown out and maybe prosecuted but my 'exaggerated point' is that you do have a choice. On a web site you have to rely on common sense being applied, but that only works if the rules are appropriate!

I'm sure someone will say we have a choice on a web site to, in that we could choose not to play on that site. Well that's very true and I do choose not to play on sites where this behavior is common, that's one reason why I play on this site.

But again I think you are missing my point. Why should anyone who behaves like that be allowed to play on a site where people go to play poker and have FUN.

[T_B_H]

i think i know the incident that is being refered to, if so then yes i was actually sat at that table.

however i was having to sit out while dealing with another matter at another table,also taking action in the database regarding the player,making notes and doing a reporting e-mail to the network

so missed anything that was said at the table.

yes we now have chat history so had i been fully aware of the exstent of any abuse the was taking place then i could have been in the position to act accordingly, however when i returned to the table i acted on trying to remove the asaid player for a different reason.

just a point on the quoted text from the T.O.S

clearly they need to be ammended as when this version was written we did not have the ability to enforce chat bans at the table, however if the chat is deemed to be of a sufficent level it still can be classed ABUSE/HARRASMENT which already can lead to a permanent ban

[sa11y69]

Originally Posted by jockney

Personally I think the penalties are appropriate.

If you use bad ,inappropriate or abusive language, then it is right that you should be denied the opportunity to chat at tables.

I'd like an answer to this, sorry to rock the boat...
can someone define 'inappropriate or abusive'? To me, swearing at the tables is inappropriate, asking female members to do sexual acts is UNACCEPTABLE.........

you may ammend my post if it seems 'inappropriate'....

[jockney]

Originally Posted by sa11y69

I'd like an answer to this, sorry to rock the boat...
can someone define 'inappropriate or abusive'? To me, swearing at the tables is inappropriate, asking female members to do sexual acts is UNACCEPTABLE.........

you may ammend my post if it seems 'inappropriate'....

I agree with your definition, and If the case that is being referred to was of such a nature then I would be in favour of a lengthy or permanant ban.

[stevo_58]

Thanks Kev, you have answered my question with your last sentence. I guess it then depends on what a mod would regard as 'of a sufficient level' to justify a ban.

That could be a tricky one for you mods. I guess the only way we will know what is and isn't regarded as 'abuse/harrasment' by the mods will be if this minority of foul mouthed idiots keep appearing on the tables?

[sa11y69]

Originally Posted by jockney

I agree with your definition, and If the case that is being referred to was of such a nature then I would be in favour of a lengthy or permanant ban.

sorry jock, it just pees me off when i see people saying that a chat ban is sufficient when this type of behaviour is going on. People arent offended by 'f' words...it goes a helluva lot deeper than this. I have no idea how to copy my chat, and i take no notice of the idiots anyway, but there are some girls here, and they are so quiet and shy, and i cringe when i see some of the things that get said to them...sorry...i'll get off me high horse now

[white_wizard]

been away fishing just got back,read most of the threads, not amused ,seems to me swearing and being rasist to people ,are just as bad,so tell me why u cannot ban them all together,kick them off the site,dont tell me the mods dont know who they are because they do,to meny people walking on eggshells ,i was on the table that night off the titans,with stevo and sal,and that guy is still on the tables playing,as if nothing happerned,ok he got a 24hour ban big deal, i got a life time ban on the old site,because someone took offence of my nick name, no problem but i had been using it for months, and this is just the tournys glad i dont play the ring tables