Suggestion: Tax

[RobbieLePop]

Tax is good. Don't get me wrong when I critize here... but.

It's used to keep the fight for 1st place on. 500k is absolutely miles away from 1st place and will no doubt highly annoy new players who break that limit.

Lets face it, there are only a select few here who are worthy of 1st place.
The tax as it stands is effectively punishing the average player who has say 500K to 10m chips.

My suggestion would be to up the break point so that tax only occurs after 10m chips are gained.

What does everyone else think?

[quicksilver45]

I think a raise would be good.....but not a massive raise like

[ilovekerry]

am not sure the points r gd each side.
i dnt like the tax but at th same time the the top ten loose alot more muny than we do so im not to sure

[RiefBuck2787]

i agree wit shaun those guys lose alot of money but i feel u 2 pop because it is hard to gain when u only have a couple grand but i love the tax its like i have two competitons at once but it does get hard seein ur money go without playing....lol

[Zouzou123gen]

i've been playing for 1 month and have broken the 500 k chips limit for quite a while; however, i find it real hard to get to (and stay at) 1 mill chips. guess 1mill would be a good limit for this tax in my case.

[curbcowboy]

there is alot of players here who have no interest in the chip lead so charging them for someone elses challange doesnt seem fair to me. and all those players who want just to keep there chip level under 5 mill should be able to do so. thats why in my opinion the tax should start at 5 mil not 500k.lets face it someone who has 4 mil is not challanging for the chip lead.

[T_B_H]

robbie wind your neck in,you dont have to be a good poker player to get to the top of thr chip list........
mprove
play your own game and and this is practice because it's free money.......
try and play as it was real money,,,,,,and you will be a better player......


dont get drawn in to the BINGO played on the SHR, or the KOTH table's to get you up to the top because if the chip list is your goal you wont play poker to get there

kev

[RobbieLePop]

I have no desire to try and become top of the leaderboard. I'm not good enough for it, I don't have the time to try and maintain it and I prefer games which can be won or lost with a smile.

In saying that, I also love playing in the mini tourney mammoths - but I fail to be able to play in these games as I can only manage to get online once in 4 days or so. By the time I'm ready to play my next game any profit I made has gone.

Every suggestion has its own rank of selfishness, but I had a think about it and I was convinced there would be other players like myself who can't play every day but like playing higher tables, as well as those struggling around the one million mark without the extra demand of countering tax.

Like I said, tax is a good idea, and it is certainly necessary when chips get very very high in order to give new players a chance, but 500K is such a low limit to be taxing.
I'd like to see what the general player thinks, and not just an "I agree" - back it up with some substance on why tax limits should be changed, or not.
I'd also like to hear from BlackLava and the mod team on the possibilties for changing tax and if they think it might be a good idea too.

Discussion is good people. Air your views.

[curbcowboy]

i dont know who robbie is but thanks for the advice kev. i just dont have any interest in chip lead means nothing.its play $

[Matadoo]

As soon as you raise the limit that the tax kicks in. Then the chips in the #1 position lifts also.

[RobbieLePop]

Originally Posted by Matador

As soon as you raise the limit that the tax kicks in. Then the chips in the #1 position lifts also.

Wrong. If the tax is still at 5% then the chips at number one will still be deduced at the same base rate.

The only change that upping the chip limit at which tax comes into play will give struggling players a chance to stablise.
It will also mean that players who are middle of the road without a hope in hell of getting 1st don't lose important chips for no real reason.

[joecool32]

Originally Posted by RobbieLePop

Wrong. If the tax is still at 5% then the chips at number one will still be deduced at the same base rate.

The only change that upping the chip limit at which tax comes into play will give struggling players a chance to stablise.
It will also mean that players who are middle of the road without a hope in hell of getting 1st don't lose important chips for no real reason.

yes they lose the same, but where do they get the chips?
they get them from other players who have enough to buyin to KOTH or SHR
and since the people in the middle are no longer taxed they have more money
and so the chip leaders have more money to be taking off of other players
there would be millions of extra chips floating around that would otherwise be deducted by the tax

[RobbieLePop]

True - but again you're wrong.

Even if the better players win those extra few millions - divided up between the top ten or so with the tax rate as it stands (see below) will make the most marginal of differences.
Top spot at the moment seems to linger around the 100 million mark. My proposal might mean the top spot averages out at 101 million.

You're saying that there are extra millions in the system which better players can win, which is a flawed argument, seeing as those millions would be taxed in exactly the same way they currently are at the moment. They would simply take a couple days extra to vanish.

Trust me, I'm a mathematician!

[cobravenom91]

I agree Robbie, to think someone could challenge for the top of the leader bord with 500k is a very long stretch at best. On the other side of the fence however is that the top players lose a lot more chips, but as an old saying goes - getting rich is easy, staying rich, now thats a challenge.

I think the tax starts much to low and for people like me and several others Im sure who dont have the time to play everyday but enjoy the challenge. It is discouraging to make gains with the hopes of playing on the higher level tables (which does test your skill) only to sign on and see you have lost the chips you earned hoping for that shot.

In that aspect, its not who is the better player or who is improving, its who has the most free time.

This is not to discredit those who are the chip leaders they have earned that right, but to say the guys sitting at 500k can take the guys with 100million so they should carry the same tax is wrong. Im pretty sure Bill gates pays a little more than the guy who owns a jiffy Lube. However if when and if you get to that level, say 10 - 20 million then yea you should definately pay to play in the big leagues. 5% for 500k to 10 million, 10% for 10 to 50mil, and 15% for higher, no not those actually numbers but just to give an idea. Or program in a formula for the amount of time and amount of money to create the tax brackets.

Thats my input and opinion.

[cobravenom91]

ps I think thats the longest post I have ever written

[joecool32]

Originally Posted by RobbieLePop

True - but again you're wrong.

Even if the better players win those extra few millions - divided up between the top ten or so with the tax rate as it stands (see below) will make the most marginal of differences.
Top spot at the moment seems to linger around the 100 million mark. My proposal might mean the top spot averages out at 101 million.

You're saying that there are extra millions in the system which better players can win, which is a flawed argument, seeing as those millions would be taxed in exactly the same way they currently are at the moment. They would simply take a couple days extra to vanish.

Trust me, I'm a mathematician!

your math is correct but you cannot calculate determination

if top players are able to now win millions more than before they will be determined to win more than the tax deducts every day

and once upon a time everyone at 100k or over was taxed

when blacklava raised it to 500k, he saw an instant raise in the chips toplist amounts

i dont mean to speak for him, saw this on another thread

[RobbieLePop]

I whole heartedly agree there will be a rise in the leaderboard chip count - but I think that is a lesser of two evils whilst some players struggle to beat off tax whilst not getting anywhere near enough to challenge.

I'm guessing the 100K to 500K was triggered by either a large band of players sitting around the 300K mark not being able to move forward, or an influx of new players in which the 100K mark was too low.
Either way - 500K might now be experience the same troubles.

I guess you can't judge until more people reply - especially those in the troubled area between 500K and 5 million lets say.

Debate is good though, I'm quietly suprised how many people have views either way on the taxing.

And on that note I'll go to bed, heres to hoping for a lot of reading for me to do tomorrow.

[MichaelVitelli]

all very nice points and definitly meets that standard of a legitimate argument but what about this. WHy is there any kind of loss or gain no matter what the percentage. why cant members just keep the chips that they EARNED. I understand about why there is a 5% deduction as to keep 1st place from getting to the point that someone gets a couple hundreds of millions of chips and rules the top spot but WHO REALLY CARES if someone holds a sort of monopoly on the 1st place spot SO WHAT, is it changing anything or making the game of poker here better or worse for anyone NO it is not. I say get rid of the 5% on both ends and just let us keep the chips that we earned. the 5% losss actually is totally redundant if you ask me. is there any1 who understands what i wrote and agreees????????

[jblough69]

I understand all replys thus far weather Pro or Con. I have been between 1 and 2 mil for several weeks now. It has been very difficult to stay over the 1 Mil mark due the fact that I cannot play every day (as much as I'd like to). It IS a mental challenge to try and play against a table full of people and also against Danzi and the rest of the leaders when I know good and well that I will never be able to surpass them in chips. I consider myself a better than middle of the road player and, if I were to have the time to play every day, I might have a different veiwpoint (or not) LOL! That is my take on the situation at hand. Hope this help resolve the issues that others like myself have with the "Tax".

[ForestKing]

Simple as this, ask Black Lava about this issue. What's he going to say. He's going to tell you Robbie about the times before you were on the site, about before the 5% was raised to 500K. This issue has been brought up countless times before and it will be brought up once again. Black Lava doesn't want to raise the tax because like Matador said as soon as you raise the tax then the chipleaders will only gain more and more chips. Does anyone remember when 65 million chips seemed impossible? Now 65 million is what 2nd place chip leader has. Just a thought.