All ins and tourney stratagy

[BBOB]

Ive noticed alot of people betting with nothing when one player is all in and 2 others are in side pot. This is not good tourney stratagy in my view and most pros from what Ive seen and read. I mean what do you have to gain if u bet w nothing and your opponent folds a pair you win no more money and the all in player will probably double up. In this situation the best thing for the 2 live players to do is check it down unless you have the nuts or atleast top pair although most pros will not bet in this situation unless absolutley sure of the best hand. This way you are more likely to knock out the all in player and anytime you can knock out a player in tourney it could mean the difference in cashing or making final table. Time and time again i try to explain this to players who bet with nothing in this situation but they dont understand and think im mad because they force me to fold a pair. No im mad because by betting you made no more money and did nothing but double up a player that I had on the ropes or someone else had on the ropes. This is an opinion but its the opinion of most pros and almost every tourney stratagy or poker book you see. Heres to alot of great poker. I hope to see you at tables soon!!!! Have a blessed day

[CherryPie]

Yes i agree xD
......... but one strategy i like to use in that situation (ona ring table not really on tourny table) is just put in min/small bets on flop & turn if i am convinced that i can get other play to fold leftover pot to me by betting the river... it works and i can break even in the hand or maybe make small profit

[ch3ckraise24]

cash games are a TOTALLY different atmosphere than tourneys. Tom "Durrr" Dwan has made several million on cash tables, yet he has zero WSOP bracelets, only a few cashes and a couple final tables. you decide.

[Trimmer76]

I agree that in tourney play, unless a player knows he/she has the nuts, they shouldnt bet into a side pot to bluff the other player off the pot. This eliminates the chance that the bluffed player may have had the beter hand to eliminate the All in player. In tourney play it is the amount of players remianing, not the amount in the pot that will win you chips or the overall win. So remember to make every decision in Tourney play towards eliminating one more potential threat.

[BBOB]

Yes but traditionaly cash game players hated tourneys because they are so volitale. At one time cash games where a place for more conservative players in that the blinds dont usually go up in cash game and u can wait on hand and you arent obligated to put your money in on a coin flip situation as u sometimes have to in tourneys. Players like Dwan bring a tourney style to cash games and this can be very effective against traditionaly
tight cash game players. What makes Dwan and others so dangerous is that they read players well and seem to know when to quit bluffin and fold. Most ultra aggressive players do very poorly in cash games if they dont know when to fold. In a cash game every 1 is looking for a hand to trap such a player. I have no doubt Dwan will win a braclet due to his agressive style and great reading ability.

[Mahx]

Yeah good luck though, i've seen the likewise.

[BAZULTRA]

BBOB is 100% right on this. I don't understand players betting into a pot with nothing when other players are allin. Its whats known as a dead pot and is absolutely pointless getting involved in unless you actually do have a hand.

Baz

[unclepony11]

I agree, there nothing more frustrating than when another player bets with nothing and you may not be confident enough your hand is gonna win only to see that he was "bluffing" and the all-in player doubles up when your hand would have knocked him out and got everyone a step closer to the pay-outs.

[BBOB]

I just thought id post to address the ongoing barage of people betting when someones all in when they have nothing. It is very frustrating thought maybe some of these would see this and read the above posts.

[cuddycat]

Sorry but if your not confident enough to bet your hand thats your problem not mine there is advantages to playing nothing ask any pro! Sometimes it has to be done

[BBOB]

Id love to know the advantage of betting into a dead pot and having a player double up because of it. Please post why u think its a good idea. Im trying to throw out some tourney stratagy tips. I dont know why your post has such a rude tone excuse me for posting a tourney stratagy tip. BazUltra agrees with me on this point. And your post doesnt make any sense unless u care to explain what u mean. You must be thinking of a different situation than I put forth in the opening post. I just played in a tourney where a player bets with nothing and because of it a player doubled up with only ace hi and the person who bet didnt win an extra dime. Its not even stratagey so much its a simple easy to understand A B C poker play. So i dont understand your agurement at all. I will agree their are situations when ur right. If their is alot of extra money to be won in the side pot. But not in the situation as stated in the opening post. And please find a proplayer to tell u otherwise.

[cuddycat]

1 my post did not have a rude tone you would know if I was being rude

2 Yes Baz agrees in theory but ask him about the hand he played in Luton,

Ask any Pro sometimes you use your reputation to frighten others out of the pot doesnt matter what hand you have

[maddarcy]

well thing is u have no control of over players moves ..like me its the last resort to going all in ..if someone has and he gets someone to call him ill fold even when i have a king or ace or both ..when ur one on one in all in u have a great chance more players who join in the odds go up ....big bets before flop yeah but why go all in if u have good hand u scare away callers ..but when playing ring tables ANYTHING GOES ..ONLY PLAY THEM GET ENOUGH CHIPS FOR OP66 TORYS .THERE A NIGHTMARE ..BUT U HAVE TO PLAY THEM FOR 2. 000 CHIPS ENTRY ..

[BBOB]

Im sorry if I made anyone angry I just know that alot of the newer players may need some advice or help in these situations. I am just trying to make our tourneys more fun and more proper poker. I agree that their are times and situations when my opening post does not apply. I just started this thread as general poker tourney stratagey and info. Im not telling anyone how to play or nor do I claim to be any sort of poker expert. I only hoped to be of help to others who may not have played tourneys and maybe dont know the importance of knocking out another player. And cuddycat I thought ur post was rude because its sounds as if ur making me out to be whining about something as I said I am only trying to be of help and make our tourneys better. And using ur reputation to bet someone off a hand is fine and bluffing with nothing is fine but not when its a dead pot and someone is all-in in a tourney. But its your choice play how you like just trying to help make our tourneys better. Just want too add what do you gain by betting into dead pot if the other live player folds when u bluff the flop and the all in player has ace hi for the win he triples up and you make no extra money. Play how you want but ask yourself what is their to gain by bluffing in this situation and what is their to gain by checking it down.

[TIDDLYW1NK]

Originally Posted by cuddycat

1 my post did not have a rude tone you would know if I was being rude

2 Yes Baz agrees in theory but ask him about the hand he played in Luton,

Ask any Pro sometimes you use your reputation to frighten others out of the pot doesnt matter what hand you have

WELL OBVIOUSLY I WASN'T THERE BUT I VERY MUCH DOUBT BAZULTRA WENT BETTING INTO A DRY SIDE POT WITH JUNK AND LET THE ALL IN PLAYER DOUBLE UP.HE'S TOO GOOD A PLAYER SURELY, BLUFFING IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME BUT NOT IN THAT SITUATION. OF COURSE NOTHING CAN BE A REAL COOL HAND (LUKE) BUT NEVER IN THE SITUATION BBOB IS DESCRIBING. BETTING INTO A DRY POT AND SHOVING OUT A PLAYER WHO HAS THE POTENTIAL TO KNOCK AN OPPONENT OUT FOR YOU MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL, I'M WITH BBOB ALL THE WAY ON THIS ONE

[Shrooms]

i agree with bbob also, no way does it make any sense betting into a dead pot when your going to get nothing out of it.

[cuddycat]

BBOB sorry If I appeared rude to you I wasnt trying to be
Your advice is very good all I was doing is saying there are situations when you can do it.

Poker is 70% skill and 30% gut in my opinion.

[DarthYoda]

ok very interesting
bluffing is a part of poker
but betting on nothing is suicide
fold rubbish preflop and bet premium
once the flop has fallen thats crunch time
the best bluff is a semi bluff ie 4 diamonds ,s8 draw or middle pair something that gives you outs if you get called
i will bluff but i dont bet into pots with hands like 7,2 off
bbob is right should never bet on nothing

[BBOB]

I will say a strait out bluff with nothing can be a good play I will do it myself when its 2 or 3 handed or I feel my opponent has a weak hand. I just think its silly to bet with nothing when someone is all in and its a dry pot because it accomplishes nothing you make no extra money and possibly doubles or triples up the all in player who should be out of the tourney. Any time you can knock out someone in a tourney its one less opponent and it could mean the difference in cashing or making final table or even winning.

[TIDDLYW1NK]

Originally Posted by cuddycat

BBOB sorry If I appeared rude to you I wasnt trying to be
Your advice is very good all I was doing is saying there are situations when you can do it.

Poker is 70% skill and 30% gut in my opinion.

70% PLUS 30%, AINT THAT 100%, SO NO LUCK INVOLVED AT ALL THEN

THAT'S ME SCUPPERED THEN, EVERY TIME I LOSE I CLAIM I WAS UNLUCKY

SURELY I CAN'T BE EXPECTED TO ADMIT I PLAYED LIKE A DONKEY