The Check Raise

[DukeOfDeath]

I haven't seen much strategy on check raising in awhile. I understand it's typically used with strong holdings (and obviously also with a bluff that you want to look strong). I know I should learn to incorporate it more into my game. I'm just wondering everyone's opinion on when and how often to use it.

[teebs]

Yeh I used to use it quite often (as a bluff), and it worked really well. However, people have started to learn my game and thus, it doesnt work for me that much anymore...so I've stopped doing it :P
Situations where it works well though (as a bluff), is for instance, if you're in the small or big blind... flop comes J 2 2 for example. You check hoping that someone bets there with a pair of Js...This is where you checkraise... Obviously the Js cant really call in that spot.
Another good spot for the checkraise (bluff) is if someone puts out a weak bet, in comparison to the pot size... checkraise...However this really depends on the opponent, as quite a few of them out there are rather sneaky :P

[notnutz]

i myself have no real opinion on the check raise i use it but only once or twice during a tourney mainly cuz i end up losing more then i should have especially on a check raised bluff

[ASBO]

I think it should only rarely be used and only when you have top hand and want your opponent to build up the pot for you.Best after the turn when bluffs are most often used( only my observation )..then you will often get a call too..

[DukeOfDeath]

So what I'm hearing is both sides of ONLY a bluff or ONLY a strong hand. Obviously you'll get cracked doing just one of those. I feel like I'd be better to mix it up between strong draws and made hands (and maybe an occasional outright bluff). I think the general concensus to use it sparingly is a smart idea (and what I've already been doing). I guess it really all boils down to the opponent. WILL they bet if you check and WILL they call your raise? Hmmm...

[ChineseIrish]

Originally Posted by teebs

flop comes J 2 2 for example. You check hoping that someone bets there with a pair of Js...This is where you checkraise... Obviously the Js cant really call in that spot.

*Cough*

We are in Italy a lot of the time amiga

[norwichrich]

like this?


Everleaf Gaming Game #263225418
***** Hand history for game #263225418 *****
Blinds 15000/30000 NL Hold'em - 2011/04/22 - 19:18:21
Table FUN Chennai IV
Seat 1
Total number of players: 2
Seat 1: matin4 ( 1515000 practice chips )
Seat 2: norwichrich ( 1485000 practice chips )
matin4: posts 15,000]
norwichrich: posts 30000]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to norwichrich ]
matin4 15,000]
norwichrich checks
** Dealing Flop ** ]
norwichrich: 30,000]
matin4 150,000]
norwichrich 120,000]
** Dealing Turn ** ]
norwichrich checks
matin4: 360,000]
norwichrich 1,305,000]
matin4 945,000]
** Dealing River ** ]
matin4 shows [ 9c ] a pair of nines
norwichrich shows ] two pairs, nines and fives
norwichrich wins 2969995 practice chips from main pot with two pairs, nines and fives ]

[teebs]

Lol CI...Obviously im talking about the OP tournaments. Any knowledge of poker, anything to do with odds, just goes completely down the drain when playing the rings :P Its like a completely different game.

[macabre]

What about a check raise on the flop out of position? Usually, but not always, a check raise on the flop makes an opponent check the turn in fear of another check raise. This is an excellent move in my opinion because it is a cheap way of getting to the river by the turn going check check, but if your opponent bets on the turn then that should indicate the strength of their hand. It also sets up an opportunity for the check raiser to attempt a bluff/value bet on the turn, depending on the situation. It's a way for someone out of position to gain position on their opponent.

[DukeOfDeath]

Originally Posted by macabre

What about a check raise on the flop out of position?

I think the very point of a check raise is that you ARE out of position. From looking around, I've concluded it's best only from defending blinds when calling a raiser preflop who you know will likely continuation bet. It's obviously a good idea to check to the raiser. If you bet your good hand, you're likely to not get paid when you have it or getting raised when on your draws. Whereas if you always check fold or check raise (or check call I guess), you keep the other person on their toes. They won't steal as much from you and you can semi bluff well from this spot too. Of course this concept is lost at most of the levels I play at b/c people call every reraise. If it's worth betting at all, they aren't laying it down.

[macabre]

Originally Posted by DukeOfDeath

I think the very point of a check raise is that you ARE out of position. From looking around, I've concluded it's best only from defending blinds when calling a raiser preflop who you know will likely continuation bet. It's obviously a good idea to check to the raiser. If you bet your good hand, you're likely to not get paid when you have it or getting raised when on your draws. Whereas if you always check fold or check raise (or check call I guess), you keep the other person on their toes. They won't steal as much from you and you can semi bluff well from this spot too. Of course this concept is lost at most of the levels I play at b/c people call every reraise. If it's worth betting at all, they aren't laying it down.

Looking back on my post I cant remember what I was getting at, or writing it at all really. lol

[DukeOfDeath]

I found a really good video on check raising from another website (which I shouldn't advertise here), but I've had little success trying to incorporate it. I feel like everytime I'm bluffing I get called, everytime I'm drawing I get 3 bet, and everytime I have a good hand I force a fold (or get sucked out on later). Maybe I just still have a lot to learn on this move.