check raise (your opinion)

[T_B_H]

i must admit that normally i like to get my chips in when i can, but on occasions check-raise is a great play,especially when your holding the nuts,and your expecting a raise after you

here's 2 examples where it worked our well tonight

must admit second hand was a marginal call after the raise, but with the right flop i was ok (flush) but that flop was a bonus, if i missed the flop then it was an easy fold, i was well stacked with chips and was worth a look in my opinion

Everleaf Gaming Game #102514848
***** Hand history for game #102514848 *****
Blinds 10/20 NL Hold'em - 2009/08/30 - 21:57:53
Table 1
Seat 6
Total number of players: 10
Seat 1: T_B_H ( 1500 )
Seat 2: ilovekerry ( 1390 )
Seat 3: RobertL1954 ( 1510 )
Seat 4: BAZULTRA ( 1557 )
Seat 5: Carino ( 1895 )
Seat 6: gary70 ( 1530 )
Seat 7: JackSpades ( 1460 )
Seat 8: Tb1rd ( 1610 )
Seat 9: jockney ( 1105 )
Seat 10: Arezzo ( 1443 )
JackSpades: posts $ 10]
Tb1rd: posts $ 20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to T_B_H ]
RobertL1954: nh
jockney $ 20]
Arezzo folds
Carino: ty
T_B_H $ 90]
jockney: nh
ilovekerry folds
RobertL1954 $ 90]
BAZULTRA folds
Carino folds
gary70 $ 410]
JackSpades folds
Tb1rd folds
jockney folds
T_B_H $ 320]
RobertL1954 folds
** Dealing Flop ** ]
T_B_H checks
gary70: $ 660]
T_B_H $ 1090]
gary70 $ 430]
** Dealing Turn ** ]
** Dealing River ** ]
T_B_H wins 3140 chips from main pot with three of a kind, eights ]


Everleaf Gaming Game #102515505
***** Hand history for game #102515505 *****
Blinds 15/30 NL Hold'em - 2009/08/30 - 22:02:18
Table 1
Seat 9
Total number of players: 10
Seat 1: T_B_H ( 3140 )
Seat 2: ilovekerry ( 1735 )
Seat 3: RobertL1954 ( 1345 )
Seat 4: BAZULTRA ( 1502 )
Seat 5: Carino ( 1735 )
Seat 6: gary70 ( 30 )
Seat 7: JackSpades ( 1355 )
Seat 8: Tb1rd ( 1580 )
Seat 9: jockney ( 1155 )
Seat 10: Arezzo ( 1423 )
Arezzo: posts $ 15]
T_B_H: posts $ 30]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to T_B_H ]
ilovekerry folds
RobertL1954 $ 30]
BAZULTRA folds
Carino folds
gary70 folds
JackSpades folds
Tb1rd folds
jockney $ 120]
Arezzo folds
T_B_H $ 90]
RobertL1954 $ 90]
** Dealing Flop ** ]
T_B_H checks
RobertL1954 checks
jockney: $ 250]
T_B_H $ 250]
RobertL1954 folds
** Dealing Turn ** ]
T_B_H checks
jockney: $ 550]
T_B_H $ 1100]
jockney: whoops
jockney $ 235]
** Dealing River ** ]
T_B_H wins 2445 chips from main pot with a full house, jacks full of fours ]

[gary70]

ya shoulda folded yer 8's when i raised 410 ya git lol

[BlackLava]

vnhs, yes I would have folded too 88 facing such 4 bet reraise otherwise well played hehe
(You're pushing 1/3 of your stack to hit that 8... I'm used to think same way and love to call with pocket pair cause that's huge fun when hitting on flop but even with implied odds it's hard to justify here )

[stjimmy]

yep, love check raising when i have the nuts. would never have called with j4 suited though.

[roo27]

lol think id of folded both hands pre flop so i gess id of lucked out there

[BlackLava]

ah yes right, missed the fact you have called 4 bet with j4 suited , you were knewing the flop before, that s it?

[elpoulpo]

I'd probably have fold the J4 too here

But a working slowplay is delicious..

[LfcFan]

Personally i dont think either hand was played to well.

Hand1
I can understand the 4.5 times pre-flop raise with everybody being well stacked compaired to the blinds, you didnt want to look weak with a small raise. Even though ive probably done the same, i dont think calling gary's big re-raise was right if he was holding a bigger hand, but how would you know that? big re-raise by the button player could just be big bluff (from a drunk lol).
Once you've both seen the flop though, i reckon you were both right to play like you did. You hit your 888, it would have been a mega read if gary saw that coming after the pre-flop action and probably put you on an over pair which he thought he had beat. After you re-raised him, he would have been low stacked, so had to call all-in.
Very lucky to hit that 8 on the flop but luck is part of the game.

Hand2
How unlucky was Jockney?
Even if you thought he was just trying to steal the blinds, calling his pre-flop raise was a gamble with J4 suited. Have you seen to many flushes or full houses to let that $30 go?

Anyway, i think if you hadnt hit with those two flops then im guessing you would have backed out without massive damage to your stack.
Only question there is how many times can you play hands like that in a torny? I know i wouldnt get very far into the game with my luck.

[stevo_58]

Well done on both Kev.

On the first hand I would have called it if my stack was about 3K. But as the raise came from a similar size stacked player, even though he had late position advantage, I would probably have folded instead of calling for 410.

Had the raise been from a big stacked player in late position who might be able to afford to try a pre flop push off bet, I would have been tempted to call it.

Did you get to see what Gary raised to 410 with?


With the second hand I follow your reasoning fully. I think you were right to call initial raise in those circumstances.

Both nice hands, well done on both mate and yes I think we all love the check raise when it works out. It brings a nice big smile to the face and a nice big top up to the stack lol

(time to update player notes on Kev everyone LOL)

[jockney]

Well played Kev, I remember the 2nd hand well. I was so commited to the pot that I felt I had to call even though I feared the chances of you trying to bluff me out of the pot were very slight. I cant complain because I do like to play the checkraise myself from time to time and have had a lot of success with it.

[stevo_58]

Originally Posted by stevo_58

I think we all love the check raise when it works out. It brings a nice big smile to the face and a nice big top up to the stack lol

Yea when it works LOL. I just went out of Hetmans on this.

I accept that maybe calling the raise with A9os was risky but what about after the flop. With the bet of 555 I put Dav on 2 pair but maybe trips, in which case my kicker is looking good. My all in might get a fold if it's 2 pair, but if it's called I have a good kicker and could just as likely hit a full house as Dav might do.

Did I play it wrong?


Everleaf Gaming Game #102581675
***** Hand history for game #102581675 *****
Blinds 15/30 NL Hold'em - 2009/08/31 - 12:19:40
Table 5
Seat 2
Total number of players: 9
Seat 1: craigsimnett ( 1645 )
Seat 2: yeoman42 ( 1630 )
Seat 3: OldDeath ( new player )
Seat 4: Barty12 ( 2180 )
Seat 5: dragi ( 2355 )
Seat 6: jimmysymtex ( 1740 )
Seat 7: baddog4 ( 1445 )
Seat 8: stevo_58 ( 1185 )
Seat 9: dav42 ( 1350 )
Seat 10: daznotts ( 1440 )
Barty12: posts $ 15]
dragi: posts $ 30]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stevo_58 ]
jimmysymtex: nh
stevo_58: nice
jimmysymtex folds
baddog4 folds
yeoman42: thx
stevo_58 $ 30]
dav42 $ 135]
daznotts $ 135]
craigsimnett folds
yeoman42 folds
Barty12 folds
dragi $ 105]
stevo_58 $ 105]
** Dealing Flop ** ]
dragi checks
stevo_58 checks
dav42: $ 555]
daznotts folds
dragi folds
stevo_58 $ 1050]
dav42 $ 495]
** Dealing Turn ** ]
** Dealing River ** ]
dav42 wins 2655 chips from main pot with a full house, tens full of nines ]

[BlackLava]

Really unlucky!
That wouldn't have changed anything but don't you think you could simply call the flop bet on such a risk free flop for you?

[Tb1rd]

I got to go like now so I'll come back later and edit this post with my thoughts.

However I just got to say I love these threads

[stevo_58]

Originally Posted by BlackLava

Really unlucky!
That wouldn't have changed anything but don't you think you could simply call the flop bet on such a risk free flop for you?

Yea good point and with hindsight maybe I should have. I do still have a tendancy to try and maximise these situations too much sometimes which, as in this case, can turns out to be at my own expense in the end. I think the word I'm looking for is 'greed' LOL.

p.s. Nice touch with the call, bet, raise highlights.

[T_B_H]

Originally Posted by BlackLava

vnhs, yes I would have folded too 88 facing such 4 bet reraise otherwise well played hehe
(You're pushing 1/3 of your stack to hit that 8... I'm used to think same way and love to call with pocket pair cause that's huge fun when hitting on flop but even with implied odds it's hard to justify here )

i think calling the raise in these circumstances was correct, however i would not have called it on a ring table.

blinds were low, so even if i'd had to fold after the flop then i was still ok and not leaving myself short stacked to play.

i had already made a "pot sized" raise so for all my opponent knew i could have been holding AA,so even had i missed the flop i still had chance to steal the pot.

the re-raise was again a "bet pot" button raise, so he could have been holding as little as AK suited, so on a rainbow flop with no A or K, then i was still looking good.

there was only 6 hands (poc9's and above)that would have been ahead of me at the time,and again for all he knew i could be holding AA.

and finally, i like to protect my blinds when i can

btw he had KK, which i half expected, so even an A on the flop could have put him off

[BlackLava]

If I read you right you would have made a half pot or pot sized bet on flop if missing it and seeing no A or K?
I understand your annalyze but Gary & you got near to 1/3 of your stacks into pot which isn't the best stack to pot ratio to try to steal, I would even say that Gary's huge preflop reraise is the perfect one to avoid thiefs on flop

Anyway that's the kind of hands making poker a really deep game, we can't really say someone is right or wrong hehe

[T_B_H]

no not necessarily, just making the point that even had i missed, it did not mean i could not still take the pot