Daniel Negreanu... DONK?!!!

[MRCOOL1]

ok.. i've been thinkin about how to post about this, as i feel like my thoughts on the matter have been fairly well explained so far in regards to people bemoaning the state of play here. but, i think this needs to be shared, and i dont think there's any way of masking the point I'm tryin to make, so I'll just be blunt about it. however, it will be with this caveat : that i mean no ill will towards any member here, their views or styles of play... as my own philosophy goes ~ to each his own, in the final showdown, we only have ourselves to answer for. we are each individually responsible for our own play. full stop.

ok. here it is:
watching the WSOP and when i saw this play i knew i had to tell it, as i about fell outta my chair laffing and cheering lol.

DANIEL friggin NEGREANU making a play exactly like what i have seen sooo many times complained about here....

he's on the button, with one caller to the blind and he gets.. 3/5 offsuit.

PREFLOP HE RAISES NINE TIMES THE BIG BLIND....

the caller has pocket 9s....and calls Daniel's raise.

flop comes.... and guess what?....

3, 5, 10 ( rainbow )

of course, the pkt 9's folded to his continuation bet, and Daniel embarrassingly admitted that he 'had it' ( altho didnt SHOW his 3/5 off lol ).


so.... here's a PRO,... in the WSOP.... makin a play like that.

You think its only HERE it happens???

again, i say,,,, its poker, folks anything is possible


..... then again,, who says the pocket nines wouldn't have tripled if he'd stayed?... hehehe.....it was HIS decision, and his responsibility....


hmmmmm.......

enjoy!!!

[telboy]

i ilke mr cool and yes its a good example but he dont do that every hand,well if he does he is most welcome here on op66

[pam66]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok then would he have made that bet if there had been a raise and about 4 or 5 other calls, like you see on here?? i think not

[seksay69]

Nice thread MR C.

Joe Hashem also comes to mind when I think of possible 'DONK' players. Not only did he win millions off 7/3 offsuit but his opponent called Joe's all in with A/3 offsuit. The flop was 4/5/6, A/4 to follow. Steve Dannemann went all in after the flop.
I guess sometimes the feel of the cards means more than the logic.

[stevo_58]

Thats quite interesting Mr Cool.

Something similar I saw a few months ago on TV. It was the 888 team tournament. 6 different countries entered a 5 player team. Each team was made up of experienced pro live tourney players, e.g the UK team had Devilfish, and each team had some pro online players.

There was a female player in the German team. When she played her round she was backing hands really aggresively. She mixed it up a bit, going all in pre flop, post flop, slow to river then raising to her opponents stack amount, quadrupling the bet after the turn and so on. The point is though that on the majority of her hands she was a huge underdog. Not only backing hands that missed completely but backing them really aggresively. Some might say so what anyone can do that with a hand, thats true, but this player was doing it regularly. She absolutely blitzed her opposition and it was really interesting to watch.

So I guess that also go's to show there is no 'proper' way to play the game.

I've commented on here about bingo players etc but at the end of the day I guess we have to play against whatever style of play our opponents chooses to use.

[jockney]

I think that particular situation he was trying to steal a pot on the button ( granted 9 x pot with 3/5 offsuit is outrageous in the extreem), but by definition does that not make him a "chancer" rather than a "Donk" ?

In my mind A "Donk" and the "donkish" behaviour( have I just invented a new term there ?) that people have made reference to recently, would be where someone calls against pot odds. For example : with a hand like 3/5 off suit because there is an Ace and a Two on the board hoping that they hit a 4 on the river.

[tictalk]

Do you really think he would have tried it with a table of 10 all calling to see the flop as happens sometimes here? Have watched it happen many times with the pro's.

[dumbdog]

I still confused how to play pocket pairs. I seem to get sucked with them. I tend to fold if i dont hit the flop if its a low pocket pair. But how far do i go with say 9's or 10's or with higher ones? I folded many times on the flop then my cards it hit on the turn or the river. Im never sure how to bet. Ive read the posts here, but still unsure. What would you all do with low pockets, medium, and high pocket pairs if you didnt hit the flop????

[sexynomore]

So a style of play that I can adopt is to post and fold and wait until I get to the final two tables then start playing.

Sounds like a sound plan. Thanks for openning my eyes all!

[TIDDLYW1NK]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION YOU CAN RAISE ANY AMOUNT YOU WANT WITH ANY TWO CARDS, IN THE RIGHT SITUATION. THIS DOES NOT MAKE YOU A DONKEY. SOMETIMES IF YOU SIT AND WAIT FOR PREMIUM HANDS YOU'LL JUST SIT AND FOLD ALL NIGHT.

ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU PERSISTENTLY CALL ANY RAISE WITH ANY TWO CARDS, YOU BETTER BE AS GOOD A BLUFFER AS GUS HANSON OR YOU ARE BEHAVING IN A VERY DONKISH (THANKS FOR THE NEW WORD JOCK) MANNER. IF YOU PERSISTENTLY GO ALL IN, OR WORSE STILL CALL AN ALL IN, EVEN IF YOU ARE AS GOOD A BLUFFER AS GUS HANSON, IT WON'T HELP YOU. IN MY OPINION IF A DONKEY THERE IS, IT'S THIS KIND OF PLAYER AND I USE THE WORD PLAYER VERY LOOSELY.

IT'S FREE AND IF THEY SOMEHOW MANAGE TO DERIVE SOME FUN OUT OF IT, GOOD LUCK TO 'EM, YOU CAN'T STOP IT AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE RULES SO MIGHT ASWELL ENJOY IT, EH FRIENDS

[elpoulpo]

At least he's unreadeable and well hidden with this raise

[JackSpades]

If your willingly putting up your chips,(ie) first to raise or flat call i dont see a problem playing lower cards there are many different winning hands in poker.I normaly fold lower end cards but suited lower connectors nomally get a call or even small pockets, depending on the raise.35 suited 1 of my favourite hands,dosen't mean i play it every time.

[Tb1rd]

I saw that too, but the difference is he was smart about it and took a gamble that paid off, but even if he didn't hit he would of bet, because I think he was just trying to bluff and got lucky. But I think the point here is he knew what he was doing, whereas others ... well they don't seem to at times (I'm not completely innocent here either )

[akire]

Originally Posted by MRCOOL1

ok.. i've been thinkin about how to post about this, as i feel like my thoughts on the matter have been fairly well explained so far in regards to people bemoaning the state of play here. but, i think this needs to be shared, and i dont think there's any way of masking the point I'm tryin to make, so I'll just be blunt about it. however, it will be with this caveat : that i mean no ill will towards any member here, their views or styles of play... as my own philosophy goes ~ to each his own, in the final showdown, we only have ourselves to answer for. we are each individually responsible for our own play. full stop.

ok. here it is:
watching the WSOP and when i saw this play i knew i had to tell it, as i about fell outta my chair laffing and cheering lol.

DANIEL friggin NEGREANU making a play exactly like what i have seen sooo many times complained about here....

he's on the button, with one caller to the blind and he gets.. 3/5 offsuit.

PREFLOP HE RAISES NINE TIMES THE BIG BLIND....

the caller has pocket 9s....and calls Daniel's raise.

flop comes.... and guess what?....

3, 5, 10 ( rainbow )

of course, the pkt 9's folded to his continuation bet, and Daniel embarrassingly admitted that he 'had it' ( altho didnt SHOW his 3/5 off lol ).


so.... here's a PRO,... in the WSOP.... makin a play like that.

You think its only HERE it happens???

again, i say,,,, its poker, folks anything is possible


..... then again,, who says the pocket nines wouldn't have tripled if he'd stayed?... hehehe.....it was HIS decision, and his responsibility....


hmmmmm.......

enjoy!!!

hi
when we play at OP66 we play with 8 or 9 other ppls on the table, it is completely different.Daniel plays for money, here they play for fun chips and dont care if they loose. If the ppl would play poker the way it was meant to be played and even once in a while bluff it would be acceptable. On the OP66 table, they go in with anything. In the tourneys there is a lot of bingo and if somebody has a large chip stack they think they have to go in on anything .
I dont belong to the OP66 inside players, but like to play poker and I get upset when the so called " good players" do all the things they complain about.

[DeanReeves66]

the difference is daniel is RAISING with 3/5 off not CALLING a raise with it like many ppl do here so not a donk move in my opinion...
i like this kinda play i find myself doin it alot in tournaments + its an easy way to steal the blinds is no1s holding a good hand...
deano

[chuckster66]

Dang cool.... alot of opinions here on this issue.however as you all know I will put it in the condensed version.Pro ,amature,or just a person who likes to have a little fun.The mainstay of these types of sites is to increase your stack. if its bingo you like, than you can play it. if you think everyone should fold a Q 8 then you can figure that in too, nothing is wrong with any of this.Folks (and i say this from the heart of my bottom)!!!!! Just play. As I see it you all asked for and received exactly what you wanted except for the one thing that seems to elude many of you. We will not just lay down and let you win with traditional poker hands. Great thread Mr Cool. If there are 8 people or 3 It makes no matter. if you think you got the winning hand, play it! If your trying to steal a pot, Play it! If you take a bad beat on any of these situations,then own up and tell the person that just whipped you... WD

[jockney]

Originally Posted by chuckster66

(and i say this from the heart of my bottom)!!!!!

For once I agree with you

[BBOB]

Its one thing to make a play with 6 7 suited and such hands but what burns me up is when I have kings,queens, or aces and raise half my stack and get called by 6 7 suited or something like k-2 suited. When I lose in those spots they tell me they played well by calling. I mean these are some who win alot and win tourneys and they think callin off a third or half your stack against someone who rarely raises with a hand like 3-5 or 6-7 is a good play. Its one thing to make a move with those hands but callin a big raise against what you know is a big hand is one of the worst plays in my opinion. I dont want to make any one mad this is just my opinion. What really gets me is the outlaw tourney is sometimes the worst or best depending on your position with these type plays. In outlaws I have raised big with queens or kings and get called by these type drawing hands. Calling a small to moderate size raise is not bad play you can get lucky and win alot against pck pair or ace king. Most of the time though when they call big raise ( 1/3 to 1/2 their stack) with those type hands your dead unless you get lucky. I havnt tried rpg but when they win like that they tell me I should try rpg. I refuse if thats whats teaching them to make such wild calls against tight players. My point is making a play with kid poker hands is ok but calling off big chunks of your stack with them is silly in my opinion. You dont hit you lose. I love to play suited connectors but will not put my tourney life on line with them preflop but alot of people accomplished and otherwise do it over and over. It is just a game however and these are my opinions. You are entitled to play any style or way you want. I am sorry if this makes anyone mad but its just the way I think and feel about It. Hope everyones still speaking with me no harm meant. Plus I lose to these type plays often so thatll tell you why im so interested in this subject for better or worse.

[xLeCheif]

dude, the guy was terribly illl... this lead to his poor play, and he admitted it, he is a fantastic player and a great role model for aspiring players... he also could be soon in the poker hall of fame

[DarthYoda]

problem with any bluff is it can be called
was playing $100 freeroll earlier
blinds were 20/10
had a 10
player made preflop raise to 100
myself and our own mrlee called it
flop was jjj
this guy immediately went all in
mr lee called i folded
mr lee had a j
the raiser 9 2 off