A game of information...

[SternSwiss]

From tel's interesting where is the skill thread, the notion of information processing and manipulation was tackled.

Since it is an important matter, I thought it would make more sense to start a new startegy thread, rather than drown a long answer in the bulk of the thread.


The central question I'd like to adress here is what information should one process to make optimal decisions.

I mean an overview of the question: each point could be expanded and discussed in details, with examples. But since there is a lot of points to discuss, it would end up into a book.


Sooo... which information to process?


How many players at the table?

Basic rule is = The more players, the tighter starting hands requirements should be all other factors notwithstanding.

Notably but not only with aces and their kickers; for example, at a table of 10 I would extremely rarely play anything below A 10, with the exception of seeing a cheap flop in late position with suited ace.

When you are down to 5 players an A7 can be strong, at a table on 10 you'd better forget it.


Who are the players?

Do you know them? could you describe their styles? are they totally unknown?

Adapt your play to current styles -simple rule of thumb is that playing the opposite of the table ( / players you are oppoosed to in a hand) is a good starting point; ie: if table is ultra agressive play conservative.

Some tables allow for contesting a lot of small / medium pots. Others (mostyl aggressive ones) will condamn you to make one or two big swoops (or die trying).

If you don't know the players, observe them and try to get a read. Play your standard game until then.


Second part is "do they know me"?

First important thing is to vary your play if you don't want to become transparent and easily catchable.

The second is to manipulate what you think they think of you, either in general, or in this particular sequence (ex: have you been agressive a lot of late? Be careful of agressing with AJ, then, but do not be afraid to overbet your AA).


Nothing replaces knowing specific people and their habits, but very often (though less here in op66's family) you face players you don't know. You need to observe them until you spot some general tendencies in their play. Then you can sort of classifying them into acrhetypes of poker players and adapt your style accordingly.

A basic typology of players is unfolded in details with advice on how to tackle each type below, as an answer to this thread and thanks to roo. His original thread can be found here.

Beware of several things, though

First impressions tend to last and can be deceitful. Ex: you see a new player at your table mid tournament. He moves a lot, is active in many hands and gives a general pushy impression. He might be a loos agressive player, as you felt, but he might also be a tight player on a hot seat good run: keep observing and tune to new info as you get it.

Second is that overtime players might change. Some do not, but many do. The note you took 3 months ago might work agaisnt you today.

Last is that good players will vary their play within the same game. So they will escape basic typologies.




How does your stack compares to blinds and antes?

In other terms, what is you M. I did a long post on that crucial topic, you can read it here.

In short the key, of course, is that the size of blinds and antes do not matter as such, but only relative to the size of your stack.

Depending on how good or bad the proportions are, you need to adjust your play if you want to maximize your results. The basic kit is unfolded in the thread, I mentioned.



Where are we in the tournament?

Early in the game, this is not a factor, but later it becomes one.

When you are in the bubble, or close to the medals, for example play change: some people become tighter, some more agressive. Adapt to them and choose your won ways.

Same for paying spots in sit and go's.

It depends on what one is aiming for and dramatically modifies equity projections.

This factor might be a bit less visible here on op66 (exception perhaps on last 5 from final table) but is an important one in general, they imply to follow the live rankings and have set aims.

True: less important with free chippies, but to take the other extreme at the wsop the difference in one position can mean 100ks$, even M's.

Still if you know, for example, that someone needs this one gold to get a long awaited slam (or any such info)... it is useful to know and adapt too (in the slam example: step-up the aggression a notch)



How big are the other stacks at the table ?

Compared to yours, of course (and amongst themselves to predict other's moves), a few implications

If you have the biggest stack, you can take anyone out ot the tournament, so you can use that to earn respect.

IF you have one of the two or three big stacks, be very careful before engaging into a serious battle with the other biggies, for you can end up out of the tournament (or having the smallest stack) in just one hand. Don't play speculative there. Be sure of what you are doing (of your hand, your reads, etc.)

If you have a medium stack be careful, basically. Of the big stacks of course, but also of the small ones who will easily go all in. F.ex: is you raise a small stack that limped, you can expect an all-in often (or at least have to count with it and ask yourself: would I like to see that?).

If you have a small stack: choose very selectively when firing you barrel, but don't wait much, less you will get eaten up.




Where do you sit in reation to the passive and agressive players?


The best for information control is to have the agressive players on your right (speaking before you) and tight players on your left.

IF agressive players speak after you, play fewer hands but more selectively and decisively.

Super agressive players speaking after you can be fun, though, coz you can trap them better, but you have to have patience (lots of it).



What bets have already been made?


Is the table opened or not? Have people limped? Raised? Raised and reraised?

The only unquestioning hand preflop is AA, all the others have to be evaluated in terms of the betting pattern (AA too, to choose what to do).

QQ is great, it is the third best hand you can get preflop. But if you face a raise and a reraise by two extremely tight players, it might be only second or even third best...



How much more people to act after you?

This is not about position per se (see below) but the fact that if your action ends the betting turn, you are in a safer position.

Eg. If action has been bet and call before you and you are last to speak, you can end up the turn by calling.

If it has been bet and raise, now, you can't end it, so a call or a raise can be answered with a reraise form the initial player (s).

Rule of thumb: the more potential action that is possible after you, the more cautious you should play.


What are the odds?

Yes,here you can't escape a little math, but it is not that hard when you get on with it.

Always compare the odds offered by the pot (compared with the bet size you consider to pursue with) and the odds of making you hand.

The pot has to offer better odds than the odds of making your hand (leaving implied odds aside for now).

Also make sure NOT to give you opponent(s) the right odds if they are drawing. If you deny them proper odds and they call, they are making a mistake. If they win they are lucky and still made a mistake, in the long run they will loose money and you will not.

Since here many people play a bit randomly and call with amazingly unfavourable odds often, it can be random (if one calls it is ok or even good for you if many call with unfavorable odds, it is bingo)... so you have to adjust figures to be bigger than with good players if you want to restrict drawing hands calls.

It is not rare that you can / have to play hands just for odds, independently of whatever you are holding.

If you practice basic odd calculation, it quickly becomes second nature. Then you can make satisfiyng estimations on the spot without unfoldind all the math...



What is your position at the table?

It is bad to act first because you will have no information about your opponenents. Converesely it is best to act last, because you see what others have done and have thus maximum info before making your decisions.

This is a huge factor, understood by all good players and often overlooked by lesser ones.

This is true for all rounds of betting, of course and crucial in heads-up.

Mechanical position players can be easily spotted and caught, though, so be careful.



So here we are, with the most important information to process to design your surgical moves.


What?


Oh, yeah I forgot something....



The cards

Yes, we do actually have cards, and they of course matter.

But so do all the of the above, and not rarely they matter as much as the actual cards one is holding, and sometimes even more. There are situations where you make certain choices regardless of your holdings.

In any case the importance cards is overlooked by poor players and relativized by good ones.

It is easy to win a tournament if you keep hitting. It is much trickier, and much more of an achievement, if you do so while dragging mostly bad cards.



Ok, so this is it for now. Depending on how experienced you are, this post might read as a lot of stuff (or as basic trivia). The more you play, observe and reflect upon you play with these factors in mind the more natural they will come to you when you have a decision to make. Most become with time internalized and doesn't require much thinking time anymore.




What about information manipulation, then?

It is a complex subject and this post, as is usual with my strategy posts, is already long.

Say first, that before you can manipulate things you have to understand them.

Then you can have an image of what others might hold. Not just I put him/her on X, but rather s/he could have this, this or this range of hands and is playing this way for achieving this or that.

Based on that image, you compare your hand with the different scenarios of what the other(s) could be holding and which could be the best way to win, get value, or get out undamaged for each scenario.

Upon that looking of the situatition and weighing of all factors, you find the move that strikes the right note.


Note: real skilled poker here becomes complicated coz you also mathematically project everything and choose and compare quantitatively all the scenarios (it can be more than a dozen) so as to find the one with best renatbility, it is called equity projection and is one of the crucial keys to advanced poker (but also a big one to tackle).

Anyways, here we don't have the time to do this fully, but you can still get on the way.


There are lots of information you can manipulate and it would get us into too much details (it goes beyond the points discussed here includes betting patterns, manipulating tells, what and when you show, etc., etc.).


Just two final remarks:

- if you want to put a bluff, make sure what you represent is meaningful, or you are likely to get caught...

- Do vary you game: you are being observed, as you observe others. If you keep doing the same moves in similar situations (position, when you attack, when you trap, etc.) you will become as transparent as glass and eaten alive.



To conclude:

The most important rule of poker, rule number one, is quite simple: THINK.

What information do you have? Why are you doing this move? What do you want to achive with it? What would you ideally have the other one(s) do? How to bring them there? etc.

If you can't answer these questions with precision, then your game is loose.

It is not a crime. We all play here for fun first. It is not rare that I play loose here for different reasons (fatigue, alchohol, fed up with lousy play so not caring, etc.), being more relaxed because it is free chips.


But the bare truth is quite simple:

If you THINK, and thus know what you are doing and why your are doing it, you will achieve much better results and you will likely have more fun in the game (because of all you can observe and understand).

If you play loose, unless you get very lucky, your results will be much poorer than what they could be. And even if you are lucky, luck won't last forever and your overall results will be much poorer than what they could be...

[BBOB]

Great thread m8. I hope every 1 reads it and take it to heart. When I have time Im gonna put up a thread to compliment Sterns excellent analysis. POOOOOOOOKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gotta love it I find myself battling making instinctive plays and stopping and thinking and knowing why your playing the hand the way you are and likewise why is your opponent betting,checking, calling etc. It has helped my game the most , and it gives you alot of confidence when your able to put ur opponent on a range or pick out betting patterns and the like , even when your wrong its still a learning experience and one more piece of info to store away. Thats why table position is so important, if your on the button you act last and are able to get more information about the hand than anyone else if your on top of your game. Great stuff Stern keep em coming

[symbolon]

Great thread Stern, but by the time I think through all that ... I'll have missed my chance lol.

However, it was good advice on table sizes and hands held. Stakes are of interest to me , sometimes I have always allowed the opponent/s to set the stake as part of the tactic .. this has brought good results with steady hands.

The desire to go all in is something I need to work on as this innevitably leads to "all out" in my case lol.

Coaching and threads like this will make us all better players at some stage.

thanks Stern

xxsymxx

[roo27]

Gr8 thread as always m8 and the only thing i can think to add would be to your "Who are the players?" section

identify the different types of players at a table.

Here’s some insight into different playing styles, how to identify them, and how to play against them. In terms of how to play against them, it depends upon your own style. Currently, I am playing more ’small ball’ poker which entails playing several hands and requires decent reading skills. It is the most effective strategy, but also the hardest to play as it requires you to make far more decisions. As well, it is can be very ineffective if you are at an aggressive table or especially ineffective at an aggressive table with turbo blinds since you will rarely get a cheap look at the flop.

The beginner:

You can usually spot a beginner from a mile away by these characteristics:

1. They play almost every hand.
2. They usually never make pre-flop raises or bet to protect their hand.
3. They are frequently calling stations.

How to play against them:

1. You can eat them alive by simple strategies like preflop raises as they will call these with any hand.
2. Always becareful not to try to bluff a beginner as they will usually not put you on the hand that you are trying to represent. They can be very difficult to bluff as they will call because they cannot tolerate not knowing what hand you have.
3. When you have a good hand, you can bet hard into the calling station and take a large portion of their stack.

The Rock

How to identify them:

1. They play very few hands.
2. They only play premium hands such has high pocket pairs or Aces with good kickers.

How to play against them:

1. Usually they aren’t much to worry about as they spend most of the time out of the pot.
2. If you are in a pot with a rock, you can be pretty sure that they have AK/AQ/AJ or high pocket pair, so watch out for these hands if you are betting against them.
3. Rocks are usually easy to bluff, provided that there is a good flop texture. If you bet against a rock, be sure that there are no aces or high cards on the board, and they will likely fold as they are very tight with their chips.

The Calling Station:

How to identify them:

1. They have the same characteristics as the beginner, but they differ in that they will actually bet when they have a good hand.
2. They rarely bluff, so if they are betting, you can usually put them on at least some hand.

How to play against them:

1. Never bluff a calling station! I once bet into an open-ended draw as a semi bluff. Everyone folded except for the calling station. I bet again, this time even more chips at the turn to try to shake him off, and he simply called. At this point, I was confused and somewhat worried that he was slow playing me. He checked at the river in front of me. Worried, that he was looking to check raise, I also checked as I missed my straight. To my astonishment, he turned over king five off suit for the win! I couldn’t believe that he kept calling me with high card king given that there was neither a str8 or a flush draw that he had. As well, he hadn’t actually paired either of his cards.

The Chaser

How to identify them:

1. The chaser is the guy who will call any bet regardless of pot odds to chase down his flush or straight draw.
2. They rarely make preflop raises.
3. They play several hands.
4. They will usually bet once they’ve made their straight.

How to play against them.

1. If you catch a good hand on the flop and you bet to protect your hand and the chaser calls without re-raising you, you can be pretty sure they are chasing if their are two suited cards on flop or a possible straight.
2. Though the odds are in your favor that they will miss their straight, be careful of trying to bet them off their chase as they can make a big payout by catching it.
3. I especially don’t like to go all in on the flop against them to protect my hand as they will call and may knock you out with the suck out.
4. My preference is to make a medium bet after the flop. This way if another suited card hits, I won’t lose too many chips.
5. If suited card doesn’t hit on the turn, I will make a larger bet after the turn as even a chaser will not always chase from the turn.
6. Rarely, if you flop a boat, you know that you can cash them out by betting large. To do this, you have to bet very big after the flop, not turn. Or you can try to slow play them and hope that they will catch their flush, but this is riskier as if they get a free look at the cards and miss, you will not get a payoff. Personally, I would rather bet large pretending that I am protecting a hand like top pair/top kicker and additionally hope that they catch the flush and bet hard.

The Maniac

How to identify:

1. The maniacs are the easiest to identify.
2. They often go all in preflop several times, strangely they seem to always win with junk cards.
3. They love to raise preflop with even an Ace with bad kicker to steal the blind.
4. They bad really hard after the flop to steal the pot, often overbetting a hand like mid pair to make it seem like they have a very good hand.

How to play against them:

1. You have to avoid calling preflop raises unless you have a hand like a pocket pair or an ace with a good kicker.
2. If you call a preflop raise with a hand like suited seven/eight and miss flop, they will eat you alive by making a large enough bet that you cannot call even if you have a decent draw.
3. Better maniacs will realize their table image and use it to their advantage. For example, you might be tempted to stand your ground against a maniac betting very large with your top pair/top kicker, and call only to get knocked out by a set that they hit.
4. Maniacs can be the hardest to play against as they are fearless.
5. They only effective way to counter one is to try to trap them. Let the other players battle the maniac until you have really good hole cards. If you manage to hit a really good flop, check and let them hang themselves trying to bluff you off.
6. The only other way to counter the manaic is to call them when they go all in preflop with a high pocket pair or a hand like AK/AQ.

The Shark

How to identify them:

1. The shark is the experienced player who is often quite street smart.
2. The shark plays more on how other people bet/react, than on their own actual cards.
3. The shark has a wide array of tools like check raising/ effective bluffing/ trapping /slow playing/ overbetting hands to steal/ raising to steal blinds / rarely makes a bad call.

How to play against them:

1. The biggest weakness of a shark is simply the card run that they have. If they are getting bad hole cards and missing flops, you can take advantage of this.
2. Be wary of folding agains them as they often will bet to represent a better hand than they actually have. If you think you have the best hand, but are not certain, stick to calling them out rather than pushing all in as they might be trapping you.
3. If you are a beginner, the only effective way to counter a cagey shark is to play ‘big bat’ poker looking to make home-runs instead of out playing them.
4. To do this, stick to playing pocket pairs looking to make sets or hands like AK/AQ/AJ.
5. The best way to bet against a shark is all-in. If they think they are beat, they will have to fold.
6. Pre-flop raises are not a good idea because if you miss the flop, they will smell blood and bluff to make you fold.

The Tight Player

How to identify them:

1. They don’t play very many hands.
2. They almost never bluff.
3. They almost never make a call when they are beat.
4. They always bet when they have a good hand.

How to play against them:

1. Tight players are very easy to play against as their strategy is rarely effective. Though they don’t hand out many of their chips, they generally don’t accumulate very many chips either unless they are having a good run of cards. As well, most players can easily put them on a good a hand and immediately fold to them.
2. Tight players get absolutely abused by maniacs and loose aggressive players who steal their blinds and bluff them off of hands.
3. The easiest way to abuse a tight-aggressive player is by a combination of bluffing and overbetting your hand when you are in a pot against them. They will often fold top-pair/kicker if you bet representing a flush that may have hit on the turn, for example.
4. Eventually, most tight players will get frustrated by a comination of constantly getting bluffed and by their diminishing chip stack. At this point, you have to trap them when you have a really good hand. Instead of their usual fold, they may simply call you out or try to fight back by re-raising you, even all in sometimes.
5. Never be afraid of bluffing an tight player by representing or pretending that you just hit a flush on river or something like that. Early game, if they call or re-raise, simply fold to them because they likely will have a very good hand and will not fold.

The Loose-aggressive Player

How to identify them:

1. In a nutshell, think ‘gus hansen.’
2. The loose-aggressive player is often the most difficult to play against.
3. They will raise action preflop and bluff the pot after everyone misses flop or overbet out of position to scare off other players.
4. They absolutely love to steal blinds late game by raising preflop.
5. They can be extremely dangerous as they are not afraid to gamble. For example, you might go all with pocket QQ short stacked late game. They will call you with a hand like K7 suited and knock you out when they catch a king.

How to play against them:

1. There is no easy answer to this question. You’re ultimate results playing a loose-aggressive player are going to depend more on luck than anything.
2. If you call their preflop raises and miss the flop, you are pretty much in a double bind. If you try to bluff them, they will call if they caught anything on the flop or re-raise you. If you hit a flop and they tried to bluff out of position, they are often smart enough to fold to a bet if they don’t have a hand or any outs.
3. If you try to steal blinds by raising, they will protect their blind by calling.
4. If you try to steal blinds with going all-in, they will call you with a marginal hand and seemingly perpertually get lucky and flop two pair to beat your high pocket pair or suited ace king.
5. In a nutshell, I like to play pretty tight vs a loose-aggressive player. Knowing that they want nothing more than turning the game into a coin toss–except maybe running you over with aggression, I try not to give them what they want.
6. I am willing to call pre-flop raises with a good hand or better yet, call all in preflop if I know they’ve been raising to steal quite frequently.
7. At the core of an effective loose-aggressive player, you will not find a complete idiot. They will fold to bluffs and generally not call if you push back against them if they think they are beat.
8. Loose-aggressive players are also susceptible to smart bluffs. For example, if they bet hard on the flop and you simply call. Then a third suited card hits and they check, if you bet representing the flush and they don’t have it, they will likely fold.
9. Though they seemingly play wild, they are usually pretty smart and try to put you on hand. You have to represent a better hand to bluff them back or simply trap them with a very good hand.

[CaptainSandy]

Excellent thread.
A must read for all players.
Even if you can only take in part of Stern's wisdom, revisit at a later date and maybe add something else to your game.
Cheers, threads like this are the reason I stay loyal to OP66.

EDIT:- blimey Roos added even more, but my head still hurts so I'll read it later.

[symbolon]

Wow Stern... just read your thread applied it to Bc and came third... best I've ever done in it .

So thanks for the tips....... also roo you read me like a book need to change tactics lol.

good luck all for 2011 great poker ahead!

cil and daylight still battling it out!

xxsymxx

[SternSwiss]

Thanks for all your kind reactions.

It means a lot to read when peeps enjoy, since it takes quite a long time to redact (but also always interestingly so).


Thanks for the additional info, roo: classic and very useful stuff.

Maybe you should start a new thread with it (always nice to mention the source, in case) and I would link it from this one, as I did for the M theory... so we have an overview thread and links to more in depth material within. In the menatime, I mentioned in the relevant section, that there is detailed information below.


@Bob: looking forward to reading you, m8.


@Sandy Thanks, m8. Means a lot. Hope your new years'challenge will be a success. I have finally started myself to play cash tables regularly with strict bankroll management (more of a tournament player to start with but learning). Doing ok, so far. If I stick to it I'll join your great thread with deano and the challenge bunch.

[ultimodragon]

Excellent thread Swissy as usual..really enjoyed and would like to post but im not as good verbaly as you so forgive me

Just a few of my own thoughts....

A game of information and misinformation...
I couldnt agree more,for me myself when im playing my true game i note whos on table,who wants to stay,who isnt bothered,where are they from...oh thats right its 4am there time...information is everywhere...

Position...
its key..if you over play the big hands pre flop..look how many callers are there and vice versa with a lesser hand..

My fave THE CARDS...
i think they make about 20% of the game..it all comes back to everything in original thread..its information,reads..if your in a 200 pot and raised 600 is that because they want you to call to get your chips or because they need you to fold..

I heard last year about a female pro,sorry i dont know details,who played a live cash game and won without looking at a hand to test the theory,was all based on information,questions,aggresion etc..

Rambling now but hope i added something


And Roo im not bluffin this year,small ball all the way its fun bro

[tictalk]

As usual great informative insight how poker should be played.........however the way the game is played online here and elsewhere you are gonna get called trying to protect your AA, AK suited and such like or high pairs, with rubbish, because it's free chips. When the players start playing as if the free chips were real money (as it was when I started 3 years and 2 days ago)that then would be called gambling. I'm afraid that throwing free chips on any two cards is not gambling or taking a risk, we be as well going down the road of the ring tables and just going all in every hand.

[symbolon]

Maybe tic there's a need to pick a table with people you know will play a fair game... not suggesting that people don't but it lessons the chancer's opportunities.

With a good table .. all the good points from stern, roo , ulti and yourself can be applied. I love to watch you guys play and have learned a lot, i'm still way out of your league, need to learn how to protect my stash and to build over time. I've frittered away too many chips in the course of the last year ....... ah well new leaf maybe.

love this poker!

xxsymxx

[SternSwiss]

Originally Posted by tictalk

As usual great informative insight how poker should be played.........however the way the game is played online here and elsewhere you are gonna get called trying to protect your AA, AK suited and such like or high pairs, with rubbish, because it's free chips. When the players start playing as if the free chips were real money (as it was when I started 3 years and 2 days ago)that then would be called gambling. I'm afraid that throwing free chips on any two cards is not gambling or taking a risk, we be as well going down the road of the ring tables and just going all in every hand.

Tic, I agree and disagree with you. I find the quality of play I am exposed to here fluctuates. Nowadays, I find it rather poor, but a few backs excellent (in big tournies, I mean)

It depends on which tables you go through a lot I guees. Sometimes there are even excellent games.

But in any case, info processing, the subject of this thread, will help you, even in bingo war jungle.

Is it jayccin drunk again? Is tel reraising from early position? How come Lahambra raising 6 times the big bling form mid position, undopened table? Utli went all-in with the small blind, decent stack, shall I call with my pock 10's on the big blind? For sure these will be info you'll process before making your decisions...

Sometimes, when the play is fishy, I find it intersting as a free lab to test things or as a field for adaptation experience, Sometimes, I get plain bored too an get into tilt-careless mode (as in BC final table tonite lol).

[roo27]

Originally Posted by SternSwiss

Thanks for the additional info, roo: classic and very useful stuff.
Maybe you should start a new thread with it

its already got its owne thread different types of players ! ! ! but that was way back in may 2008 but i thought it might be a good add to yours

[ASBO]

Great stuff...makes people more aware of just what a psychological game of cat and mouse poker can be.Thanks for taking the time to put it all together in such an incisive and detailed way.

[SternSwiss]

Originally Posted by roo27

its already got its owne thread different types of players ! ! ! but that was way back in may 2008 but i thought it might be a good add to yours

Now I remember it, roo. Did you re-read the first answer to your thread, m8? What a time travel, lolol.


Also, good to remember some long gone faces. Mac46's comment was insightful, good ole danzi was hilarious, etc.

I added the link, so people can accesss the info both ways.



Thanks again for your feedback, everyone!

[DeborahLee]

Read this thread from top to bottom earlier in the day...and must admit had a good think about a few things. I know I play a certain way....and usually am too worried about my chips to change it up a bit. Stick to whats familiar. I'm not sure if some of your comments stuck for tonight's tourney, but found myself playing slightly different, matching bets and taking a chance on playable cards when I would normally fold, taking note of a persons play, looking to see where I was on the table compared to blinds and other players and even throwing in a few bluffs when the opportunities arose ( which I never normally do ).

Not sure if this all has anything to do with it, but managed to walk away with the gold. I normally crack and have the many silver, bronze and 4th places to prove it.

Thanks stern and all, will definitely keep an eye on my play , and others.

[SternSwiss]

Originally Posted by DeborahLee

Read this thread from top to bottom earlier in the day...and must admit had a good think about a few things. I know I play a certain way....and usually am too worried about my chips to change it up a bit. Stick to whats familiar. I'm not sure if some of your comments stuck for tonight's tourney, but found myself playing slightly different, matching bets and taking a chance on playable cards when I would normally fold, taking note of a persons play, looking to see where I was on the table compared to blinds and other players and even throwing in a few bluffs when the opportunities arose ( which I never normally do ).

Not sure if this all has anything to do with it, but managed to walk away with the gold. I normally crack and have the many silver, bronze and 4th places to prove it.

Thanks stern and all, will definitely keep an eye on my play , and others.

Great! Congrats hun



Of course, impossible to know if or how much "it has to do with it".

But since you changed your style form tight-passive to more agressive, it likely had an effect on your opponents, which gave you credit for your blufss (same happened with maggie, when she changed her play).

And since you took more paramteres into account, it made your play with more depth.

This said, it is not panacea at all. I find that the decisions I make on new understandings (or plain deductions) can sometimes be really wrong, but usually part of the info process was on the right track, but got a wrong final interpretations and these are excellents situations to reflect upons your game and improve.


Anyways: congrats again hun keep'em golds pouring!

[SternSwiss]

Originally Posted by ultimodragon

I heard last year about a female pro,sorry i dont know details,who played a live cash game and won without looking at a hand to test the theory,was all based on information,questions,aggresion etc..

I guess you are referring to Annette Obrestad, aslo known as Annette_15 (her original online nickname).

She is known for playing blind often and in general for a very loose aggressive style.

I am not a major fan, but I like her; anyways she is definitely a figure of the pro world. I liked the way she kicked out phil hellmuth from national heads up, sdeveral hands are on youtube.

Here I found an exemple where she is supposed to do just that in a 180 SNG (online) and wins.

If you interested to see some high level "blind play", Alex Kravtchenko can be quite intersting (and is an excellent player overall)

[ultimodragon]

Cheers Stern mate,never realised was her..was watching some of the europen wsop recently..shes not very entertaining to watch id rather watch Negrauna or Laak but love how she plays..for such a young player,i know she gets a lot of heat too..hope was relevent to thread how cards are not the most important factor...keep adding to thread mate its a good read

[RockDivaD]

I have noticed one other thing stern I do need to listen to myself more, find myself doing silly things and I DO know better.
Great read and Roo, have read this before but great to review again thanks guys xxx

[sexynomore]

Very imformative thread Stern.

It would be fun to have a game where-as all the players played their style of game (many would have trouble identifing one) from the very first card to the end. Most people would have to write it on a piece of paper to remind them throughout the game of how they should play their cards, chip stack and position.

Obvisouly the above is impossible because most people change throughout the game and I set back thinking, what is my style!!