bold statement

[chuckster66]

Ive just read where German Chancellor Angela Merkle,has publicly announced that multicultural society has failed Germany.
She said that all immigrants of Germany should learn the language fluently and without accent,as well as adopt christian values.
In todays world I find this to be a very bold statement from an International leader.
Anyone got a thought on this?

[stjimmy]

would love to see uk leaders take this stance.. wow..

[chuckster66]

LOL. jimmy I was kinda thinkin along those lines for here too

[aceman666]

Is this not how Hitler started out in the 1930's, mass unemployment and depression its a dangerous mix.Lets face the fact that the world is getting smaller and so it seems are peoples minds !

[Bobble66]

Australia is one of the most multi cultural places on earth....we accept others for what and who they are
Bigotry and persecution are not needed nor wanted in this world that we know now...learn to love your neighbour and they will love you
if we all work together and help each other there would not be the problems we have in modern society
this is all just my opinion and i stand by my convictions....there are no bad religions nor races in this world just bad people who misinterprate what is written

[aceman666]

Originally Posted by Bobble66

Australia is one of the most multi cultural places on earth....we accept others for what and who they are
Bigotry and persecution are not needed nor wanted in this world that we know now...learn to love your neighbour and they will love you
if we all work together and help each other there would not be the problems we have in modern society
this is all just my opinion and i stand by my convictions....there are no bad religions nor races in this world just bad people who misinterprate what is written

Hear,Hear !

[cuddycat]

When in Rome do as the Romans do. When we visit other countries with differing religions we(the vast majority) respect their customs and beliefs and dress in a manner which will not offend our hosts ie women with arms and legs covered etc. Unfortunately the same respect is not shown to us by the vast majority of new wave immigrants.

Britain is also a multi cultural society and has been for decades but the difference in the type of immigrants and what they expect has changed beyond recognition even the original immigrants who have worked hard all their lives to fit into our way of lives despair.

If you want to live in a country different from your birth I think you should have to at least try to learn the language and respect the customs of that country what language you speak in your own home and what religion you practise is your own business just dont force it down your host countries neck. So well done to Angela Mercke for saying what a lot of people think.

There are good and bad in all races, religions, sexes and creeds but forcing your beliefs on others does not make them right.

[SternSwiss]

@cuddy

So many expats in Switzerland speaking only English or their native language, acting like the streets are theirs with their cars and not being sacntioned when they cause accidents (when they have international immunity, like all diplomats an UN employees), extremely loud in public and bars, living in cliques, biasing property values etc, often even exempted of tax contributions to the country they live in, many cases of criminality recorded, mostly goes unpunished, etc..

No one complains coz they are "elite" immigrants so they do not need to conform or "do as the romans".

While everybody in my increasingly narrow minded and racist country (like everywhere else in the crumbling Western World) is passing their fear and frustrations on the lower starta immigrants, passing voting new restricitve laws, closing doors, etc.

I am not saying there are no problems linked to immigration, I am saying I find tedious to see people projecting their fears and narrow mindedness on easy preys. After all if their world is crumbling, their income shitty, their insurances scams, and their situation frightening is is not mainly due to the pakistani immigrant (whose great grandparents didn't ask to be colonized) but due to an economic system that went mad and out of control after the Reagan and Thatcher's administrations.

Fidning scapegoats in crisis time is the eldest trick in the world and it is afflicitng to see the volume of people falling for such populist rethorics. We are building a society of exclusion, simply. And if we do so, it won't stop when the "bad foreigners are out or conformized", it will apply many consequences to weakest constitutents of society (as we can already observe today).


BTW, nation states are recent inventions (2-3 centuries) which have created this "one people, one language, one land" delirium that has been brought to extremes of absuridities (suppression of inner diversity of vernacular languages, dialects and creeds, expulsion of 'external constituents')

Such process are actually reponsible of much of todays problems and outmigrations (ex: middle east, central and south asia, etc.). For such regions, the roots of current problems are largely found in the strategic manipulations of the big powers of the XIXth century XIX, notably English and Russian empires and somewhat later, the US, etc.. As you sow so shall you reap



On another topic, Frau Merkel's positions are a bit more complex than what stated in the OP: for example she holds that "islam is a part of Germany" and is actually judged by many not conservative enough.


This is ended up as a rant not addressed in particular at cuddy, btw.

[cuddycat]

Rant away you havent lived in Streatham or you would see what I mean.

I have no problem with migration what I was trying to say is I dont see why having migrants should change the very fabric of the host country as it is now doing in Britain.

We have schools in my area where not one child speaks English surely this is not right.

I have not been in allowed clubs because I am white if a British club did that to a person of colour there would be an uproar reverse racism has well and truly started.

You are right you reap what you sew unfortunately the people who started all this are long gone and its us their great great great great great ..... who have to deal with the consequences on a day to day basis.

[aceman666]

You will find that most peoples fears are based on jealousy in some respects. Such is the extent of the present economic climate, our governments have overspent and we all now have to pay the price. History also illustrates that immigration is an easy target when times are difficult, whilst wealth is never fairly distributed is that not the real problem ? For centuries the rich countries have had a great portion of wealth from developing countries and their peoples so can we argue when these same people want something back.Greed i am afraid is the real issue,is it not time we accepted our fellow humans wherever they are,the starvation and despair really upsets me,and for what...so we can have a new car every 3 years,is it really worth the human cost for something that we can't take with us ?

[SternSwiss]

@cuddy

The thing is "the fabric of the host country", presented as a timeless essence, has been fabricated, and quite recently, often at great violence that we have forgotten (ask most european minorities or what's left of them).

In Egypt, to take a non european example I know too well, where my ancestors grew up as long time migrants, non arab, non muslims. People where living on their own as communities and were rather peacefully living with each other until the 50's: christians, jews, muslims, others etc. They would trade between communities, not rarely make friends, almost never marry. Several languages were spoken.

The problems started when it suddendly became question to make Egyppt an Arab Nation, with a national religion and a national language. All our family property was confisacted and most had to leave. One land, one people, one nation....


I have no problems if things change again: it is the history of civilizations. I would even be looking forwards to things changing if I didn't see them so gloomily coming, but seemingly on opposed grounds than many.


Ok, I haven't lived in Streatham, but in Tooting (ok only a few monhts and 15 years ago and not sure if and how it compares). Here, I have lived in Turkish neighboroods where no one speaks German (out of necessity) and where everyone "local" screams about deculturation and the end of times. I also lived in some other strange places such as slums in Asia (and not for a few weeks as a voyeur, but for work).

Always felt perfectly fine in such places and actually found relationships humane and healthy, much more than in the "ethnically correct" neighboroods, I have lived in actually.



But I don't want to start an endless debate or throw oil on the fire.

It is an ideological and political debate and very unlikely to bridge. Just wanted to express my point of view point of view and return to poker.


I won't enjoy anyone's company less because we think of each other that we are ideological aliens

[chuckster66]

OK hope feathers arent getting ruffled,I started this thread to kinda get an international reaction,truly we all come from different cultures.Its just that thiss particular issue is a very big one in the United States right now.The popular belief here seems to be this.

If you come to our nation,through legal channels,you are welcome.However at least show a little respect,and learn our language as so we can communicate together,live together,work together,play together.Practice what ever religion you wish.As an American citizen it is your right!

Then there is another belief system that has developed mostly in Our liberal political arena,It goes like this.

AMNESTY FOR ALL!!!!!! We dont care how the freak you got here,welcome welcome my friends.Please let us take you under our wing and give you everything that you need for free!!!!!!That way down the road some day we can control everything you do and say.Hell we will change our national language for you so we can understand you better,you will fit right in!Let our American taxpayer carry your burden for as long as you wish! WE just LOVE everybody,and we want you to LOVE us!!!!

OK maybe a little farfetched hehe! We have states that have enacted laws to guard and protect its citizens from people that are here that shouldnt be here.But our federal government says thats not legal.its not constitutional,YOU CANT DO THAT!........BAD STATES!.......

I tell ya folks its all boiling to a head,Its a concern for me and many others I think.I dont know what its like in your countries I have never lived abroad Thats why I was tryin to get a feel on how other people from around the world view these kind of statements like Chancellor merkle'S Thanks for allowing me to see into your thoughts a little bit on this issue Respectfully yours

[Arezzo]

chuckie...sound familar..."Press 1 for English"...???

[stjimmy]

Originally Posted by Bobble66

Australia is one of the most multi cultural places on earth....we accept others for what and who they are
Bigotry and persecution are not needed nor wanted in this world that we know now...learn to love your neighbour and they will love you
if we all work together and help each other there would not be the problems we have in modern society
this is all just my opinion and i stand by my convictions....there are no bad religions nor races in this world just bad people who misinterprate what is written

i understand what youre saying, but in the uk, there are no-go areas, where you can get stabbed for being white, during the world cup, taxi drivers had to remove their england flags from their taxi's incase it offended anyone. this just aint right.

[white_wizard]

no matter what country u live in,,there are too meny do gooders,at one time if anyone threatern this country,,there was millions ready to inlist,,proud men and wemen,,glad to say ill die for my country,,,u wont get that now,,just a hand full of people will stand up now,,and yes i was a soldier,,and proud

[SternSwiss]

lol, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Seems like jimmy ignored me during the whole BC lolol.

Btw, I agree that having to hide your team's flag is a shame (anywhere).

[sweetkitty]

To my opinion, all of you are right somehow... but look... we are all here on the op forum and all of us talking in the same language... and just for fun, entertainment and to get to know people from all over the world... fortunately those among us, who are not from countries where english is the main language,have learned this language once.. imagine if i would write in german, sandokan in dutch and so on....what a disaster would it be.. so... shouldnt it be at least the language, people who want to live in our countries should learn? I dont mind at all about religions, races, political opinions.I am kind of multi-culti like all of us in the op-family.. but to communicate we need at least to understand the words....