Great tourney / sitting out

[ChineseIrish]

Just finished a great hetmans.was lucky enough to win. incredible final table with class players. However, something got me miffed. On the final table Bobble was chip leader. He lost connection. I do like Bobble but think it was unfair that Capo got 4th after 2 and a half hours gameplay, when there are only 3 people physically playing out of the final four.

There must be some way in which tourneys can be set up to boot out players who havebeen inactive for a prolonged period of time.

Final table was great. However, although Bobble can not be blamed for his connection, the table only had 9 people.

Hope something can be done in general to sort this out. Maybe Bobble would have won, but he wasnt in play

[OP66fozzy]

If a player has paid the entrance fee for a tourney, they should not be booted from that tourney.

The blinds will get them eventually and if other players are eliminated before then, that is just bad luck.

Assuming Bobble was trying to reconnect, how do you think he would have felt if he did get back on only to find he had been booted due to inactivity.

Yes on a ring table, by all means kick them off, they are just occupying a seat, but tourney play is completely different.

[daddyspoon]

iv seen it in pubs were someone goes for a smoke, the blinds get pinched. seen it on tv too where a guy left the table when it wasnt his blinds so he wasnt tempted to play hands. funny old game

[ChineseIrish]

Good points fozzy, but I have to disagree. You say a player has the right to stay in a tourney if they pay the buy in. That is fair, up to a point. However, if one builds up a large chip lead and disappears it does affect the game, especially a final table. You say if players are out before the inactive player that's bad luck. you know more than i about the pattern of final tables, and short stack players who push all in may have gotten a call from bobble , especially as chip leaders generally play more aggressive. what happens if they would have won?also, i was in a hand with bobble,checked the whole way down for face.Picked up a full house and bobble flopped trips. if i had won that hand which was midway through the final time against an active Bobble, his chips simply would simply have been decimated and he most likely would not have finished where he did. i was second chip leader. if bobble had lost with this hand any of us would have pushed with, especially at the business end, his stack would be much lower, so players who finished before him may have been there longer. this is just one example. You could argue the other way and say who knows what he would have won. however the hand i mentioned would have drastically affected the final table, and actually did happen.

also, sitting our for an hour in a tourney, whatever the reason, is something which should not be allowed to occur.

and yes, tourney play is completely different, but that fact in itself is not enough to justify your argument. the final table itself is greatly affected as mentioned, especially with so many of the available chips being held by someone who is not there.


In general, some tourneys start off with a 4 or 5 handed all in. I have seen it. Would it be fair if a player won one of these and just sat out to get into the points positions? Yes, Bobbles case was genuine, but the principle is the same. Sitting out does have a negative affect on the game, especially in these circumstances

[Pocket_Ducks]

Be thankful he wasn't there, otherwise the gold may have fell in different hands lol

I agree with fozzy on this.. if you've built urself up to a good chip stack, and it is within your means to sit out if you have to (or otherwise) then why not? As the spoon says, it happens in real life

kwak

[CaptainSandy]

I'm in complete agreement with Fozzy on this one.
You pay your Tourney entrance you can play how you wish.
Especially in this case where it was a disconection; are you seriously saying someone should be kicked out of a Tournament because they have lost connection.
Whatabout if a player has built up a big stack and decides to fold every hand except AA, it's pretty much the same.
Sorry m8, you are wrong on this one.

[curbcowboy]

i agree with you totaly Chinese.thats the way the original script was set up and it worked very well. eliminates are the campers.its a shame when a player enters a tourney with low number of players and never plays a hand and takes points and sometimes a medal.every hand you sit out you should have to pay a penalty of matching the small blind.this will eliminate all the campers.if you enter a tournament be ready to play it.take care of all your business before hand or dont enter.

[curbcowboy]

and folding and camping are two differant things. you have the right to fold every hand if you want to but at least you are at the table playing.

[CaptainSandy]

You also have the right to leave the tableand loose your blinds.
It's called tournament poker.

[curbcowboy]

yes with a penalty....for not being at table.

[T_B_H]

below is rules from a very wellknown MASSIVE poker site, seems OP rules are in line with that


Sitting Out Rules
Why "Sitting Out" isn't against the rules

A player in a "ring" game (a non-tournament game) can click "leave table", and take his chips out of the game at any time. They can do this because each hand is its own separate event. If a player sits out too long in a ring game, we do remove them in order to free up the seat for another player.

A tournament is not like a ring game, however. For their "buy-in", they receive their starting stack of chips, which are not from their chip totals but are instead just scorekeepers for the tournament. Once the event begins, it must proceed until one person has won all the chips.

For the same reason that players cannot just choose to pick up their own chips and leave, we cannot arbitrarily remove the player and their chips from the event once it has begun. Every chip in a starting stack of a tournament must be at the final table in order for a game to be fair to every player.

It's best to think of a player who is sitting out as simply folding every hand. This is a completely legal tactic, as it is up to any individual player to decide his own best strategy. There is no rule, for obvious reasons, against folding every hand. Therefore, what these players are doing is not against any rule, and no action will be taken against them.

For the same reasons, we cannot make changes to the system to discourage this activity. Once a player has paid their entry, they are entitled to play (or not play) every hand that their chips will buy them.

A player who is sitting out actually puts his opponents at a significant advantage. The player who is sitting out is still forced to pay his blinds and antes, and is never able to build his stack. On occasion, a player in a one-table Sit & Go might blind off into 3rd place, or maybe even 2nd, but players who employ this strategy are usually far worse off than those who play their best game.

If players are actually reaching the payouts and winning chips by sitting out the entire time, this is a sign that the play in these events is far too loose, and you should adjust your play accordingly. You will find that this is often the case with all play money chip games. I'm sure you've noticed, for example, that players will go all-in holding virtually nothing when it is play money.

[CaptainSandy]

Curbs, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
If you fold every hand you'll lose your blinds just as if your not at the table.
Anyway I've said my piece - it's allowed, not something I would do myself but it's a tactic that is allowed.

Edit: hadn'tseen TBH's post, which says it all.

[BBOB]

In tourneys you cant boot someone. The way a tournament is set up it will not work out if u take their chips out of the mix. In tourney poker if you ever watch on tv it is perfectly fine not to be their.(Phil Helmuth is hours late every year in main event) No penalty other than the dealer takes the blinds and antes from ur chips. In 1991 i believe Stu Ungar (3 time mainevent WSOP champ) had a huge chip lead , he nearly died of a drug overdose on the night before final day. They put his chips at table and the dealer took blinds and antes. He came in 9th place and got 9th place money thats how tournament poker works. In rings ofcourse they should be booted after awhile. but in tournament this is not possible if the prize pool and chips avalible at final are not correct. And by the way on this site without the sleepers tourneys would still get cancelled especially wombats. Night before last it would of got cancelled with 14 players except that a certain person entered so it would not get cancelled and then this person was critized because people where upset they where sitting out. I guess these people who complained in this instance would rather the tourney gets cancelled. It really hurt this players feelings too as they where only trying to help. Ill not mention their name but its a well loved member of OP66 and one of my best friends on site .

[curbcowboy]

i think what im trying to say is,(other than the example that BBOB just provided. why would you enter a tournament if your not going to play in it. just baffles me,but everyone is entitled to their point of view.

[T_B_H]

i fully understand yours and everyone elses frustrsation when it happens curbs, but as its within the rules of tournament poker i cant see that there is anything we can do, i guess if we had larger entries in the tournaments then anyone sitting out would be blinded out well before the end and then not have chance to make the points etc

[chuckster66]

Its really not a point of view.Its the factual Rules of the game.if you have spent the money to Enter,you really never have to play a single hand.

[Kingcard]

Originally Posted by chuckster66

Its really not a point of view.Its the factual Rules of the game.if you have spent the money to Enter,you really never have to play a single hand.

That's my best trick.Watch you gits fight it out lol...

[curbcowboy]

the original script had the answer TBH. it worked well you remember it.

[ChineseIrish]

The old script did have the right idea I think, and I completely agree with Curbs points.

Kev, I think you are a decent guy and respect you, but just sharing rules with another site, no matter the size of it does not mean it is correct.

Bob, you made a good point about the chips. However in practical terms the chips were out of play anyway. Sure, others benefitted as they profited from autofolds, but the chips were dead as the player was inactive.

EDIT: In the last paragraph you got Kev, you made a point about loose play. table was of high quality and a 26 person tourney lasted 2 and a half hours.

[chipjones]

if i remember the original script was five hands if you didnt play (yes a fold was or is a play) you were gone. so therefor you had to be at the table even if you folded every hand.